Today's postings
- [Baren 39741] Australia Calling (Tom Kristensen)
- [Baren 39742] Colors for Moku Hanga (Margot Rocklen)
- [Baren 39743] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V48 #4966 (Sep 18, 2009) (Marilynn Smith)
- [Baren 39744] relief prints/ collographs (Viza Arlington)
- [Baren 39745] Re: Hi everyone. Although I have printed in relief usi... (Bobbi Chukran)
- [Baren 39746] RE: Australia Calling (jennifer kelly)
- [Baren 39747] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V48 #4962 (Sep 16, 2009) (Bobbi Chukran)
- [Baren 39748] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing (Bobbi Chukran)
- [Baren 39749] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing (Viza Arlington)
- [Baren 39750] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing (Bobbi Chukran)
Message 1
From: Tom Kristensen
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:36:24 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39741] Australia Calling
Send Message: To this poster
It's 11 pm and I'm not doing anything print related, but since my
name, and the country, was mentioned I thought I better write.
Thanks for the thumbs up Mike and Jennifer you are welcome to drop by
Newtown Sydney and talk/do moku hanga. I'm in the process of moving
house so a lot of stuff is getting culled. My first two prints, that
I thankfully had the sense to keep in the drawer, have gone to the
paper recyclers. Not a small quantity of paper, I learnt a lot by
doing big editions of bad prints on excellent paper. I have been
packing up all my blocks (why I keep them, I do not know) and I
figure there must be close to 500 of them and I suppose I might have
made 100 impression from each block - if I include the proof work.
So, I think I might approach the magic 50000 mark at which point I
will find "some unconscious facility" with the baren, but I still
feel like a beginner. It is true that a lot of techniques do now feel
more comfortable, but at the same time nothing is ever easy to do.
Without concentration things will run off the rails. Every print is
as demanding as the first and I usually go through a period of doubt
when I wonder if I will get anything on paper that meets my aims. I
always spend days proofing a set of blocks, looking for a printing
sequence that gives me a thrill, and I usually have to tweak my
blocks, sometimes I ditch a block, sometimes I carve a new block.
Which is why moku hanga is so rewarding, it's not entirely easy.
name, and the country, was mentioned I thought I better write.
Thanks for the thumbs up Mike and Jennifer you are welcome to drop by
Newtown Sydney and talk/do moku hanga. I'm in the process of moving
house so a lot of stuff is getting culled. My first two prints, that
I thankfully had the sense to keep in the drawer, have gone to the
paper recyclers. Not a small quantity of paper, I learnt a lot by
doing big editions of bad prints on excellent paper. I have been
packing up all my blocks (why I keep them, I do not know) and I
figure there must be close to 500 of them and I suppose I might have
made 100 impression from each block - if I include the proof work.
So, I think I might approach the magic 50000 mark at which point I
will find "some unconscious facility" with the baren, but I still
feel like a beginner. It is true that a lot of techniques do now feel
more comfortable, but at the same time nothing is ever easy to do.
Without concentration things will run off the rails. Every print is
as demanding as the first and I usually go through a period of doubt
when I wonder if I will get anything on paper that meets my aims. I
always spend days proofing a set of blocks, looking for a printing
sequence that gives me a thrill, and I usually have to tweak my
blocks, sometimes I ditch a block, sometimes I carve a new block.
Which is why moku hanga is so rewarding, it's not entirely easy.
Message 2
From: Margot Rocklen
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:34:04 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39742] Colors for Moku Hanga
Send Message: To this poster
Marilynn and Andrea,
I heard from Rostow and Jung yesterday - in answer to my inquiry about the opacity of the AkuaKolor inks, what I could do to increase their strength where needed, about the oil converter effects, papers, etc. Susan Rostow was very helpful, and also educated me about some of the chemistry of the colors. She suggested I read more info. on their website in the section, "Understanding Pigments".
The Oil Converter: not recommended for moku hanga. Meant to give body of paper and image area a shinier surface as in oil base inks. Is meant for monotype. I read that it can be rolled onto a clean plate and offset onto image. Could roll through a stencil, or cover entire image area.
She suggested not using modifiers with the colors for moku hanga.
Regarding the weakness I perceived with some of the colors, Susan said some are definitely less intense than others - I guess the character of the pigment depends on its chemical makeup. She said all their colors are single pigments disbursed in a binder. (I need to learn more about pigment disbursal, different binders, etc.) Where one needs strong, opaque color, she said to use a more intense color and change it to the color you need by adding other colors. I do realize that the time-honored alternative is to overprint the same area again and again. She gave me some info. about specific colors, but said I should find out more on the website:
The oxides, i.e. Red Oxide, tend to be stronger and more opaque than the earth colors, i.e. Burnt Sienna & Yellow Ochre & the Umbers, which are more transparentPthalo Green Blue & Green Yellow are intenseLemon Yellow is more transparent, but Hansa and Diarlyyde (spelling?) yellow are intenseJet Black is intense, but Lamp Black is less so.Ultramarine Blue is transparent, whereas Pthalo Blue is intense
Susan said McClains and others working in the moku hanga technique would be able to answer my questions about paper, which has proven correct.
Jean, thanks for your input about color transparency. I've noticed the huge difference between the two when using Graphic Chemical's regular etching inks as opposed to offset lithographic process colors (for 4 color separations), and in viscosity printing using oil based rolls.
I didn't expect the same differences in water based ink colors, so it's a new learning process for me. I wouldn't trade either, because both water base and oil base printing have their place in my studio and inventory of methods. I do know that achieiving both tansparent and opaque effects in the same print is possible, and that's what I am after. I would be looking for that interplay whether using oil or water base inks.
I have used the Createx monotype colors, roll-up base, retarder, etc. for my monotypes, and liked them very much for my own style of working. They were oilyish and slippery in feel compared to the AkuaKolor (for that reason, I wouldn't use them for woodblocks), and yes, the colors were very intense, so I neutralized them where needed. They worked well for rolls and additive or subtractive techniques. It took a lot of overprinting to get darks dark enough, and rich, opaque colors, even though the colors appeared intense in the bottles. Although I was willing to spend the time for satisfactory results, when I tried those colors with a class of high school students they lost patience with having to overprint several times. Recently I have been making oil base monotypes, using a press.
Margot R.
I heard from Rostow and Jung yesterday - in answer to my inquiry about the opacity of the AkuaKolor inks, what I could do to increase their strength where needed, about the oil converter effects, papers, etc. Susan Rostow was very helpful, and also educated me about some of the chemistry of the colors. She suggested I read more info. on their website in the section, "Understanding Pigments".
The Oil Converter: not recommended for moku hanga. Meant to give body of paper and image area a shinier surface as in oil base inks. Is meant for monotype. I read that it can be rolled onto a clean plate and offset onto image. Could roll through a stencil, or cover entire image area.
She suggested not using modifiers with the colors for moku hanga.
Regarding the weakness I perceived with some of the colors, Susan said some are definitely less intense than others - I guess the character of the pigment depends on its chemical makeup. She said all their colors are single pigments disbursed in a binder. (I need to learn more about pigment disbursal, different binders, etc.) Where one needs strong, opaque color, she said to use a more intense color and change it to the color you need by adding other colors. I do realize that the time-honored alternative is to overprint the same area again and again. She gave me some info. about specific colors, but said I should find out more on the website:
The oxides, i.e. Red Oxide, tend to be stronger and more opaque than the earth colors, i.e. Burnt Sienna & Yellow Ochre & the Umbers, which are more transparentPthalo Green Blue & Green Yellow are intenseLemon Yellow is more transparent, but Hansa and Diarlyyde (spelling?) yellow are intenseJet Black is intense, but Lamp Black is less so.Ultramarine Blue is transparent, whereas Pthalo Blue is intense
Susan said McClains and others working in the moku hanga technique would be able to answer my questions about paper, which has proven correct.
Jean, thanks for your input about color transparency. I've noticed the huge difference between the two when using Graphic Chemical's regular etching inks as opposed to offset lithographic process colors (for 4 color separations), and in viscosity printing using oil based rolls.
I didn't expect the same differences in water based ink colors, so it's a new learning process for me. I wouldn't trade either, because both water base and oil base printing have their place in my studio and inventory of methods. I do know that achieiving both tansparent and opaque effects in the same print is possible, and that's what I am after. I would be looking for that interplay whether using oil or water base inks.
I have used the Createx monotype colors, roll-up base, retarder, etc. for my monotypes, and liked them very much for my own style of working. They were oilyish and slippery in feel compared to the AkuaKolor (for that reason, I wouldn't use them for woodblocks), and yes, the colors were very intense, so I neutralized them where needed. They worked well for rolls and additive or subtractive techniques. It took a lot of overprinting to get darks dark enough, and rich, opaque colors, even though the colors appeared intense in the bottles. Although I was willing to spend the time for satisfactory results, when I tried those colors with a class of high school students they lost patience with having to overprint several times. Recently I have been making oil base monotypes, using a press.
Margot R.
Message 3
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:48:33 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39743] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V48 #4966 (Sep 18, 2009)
Send Message: To this poster
I don't believe all my prints for exchanges have been over the top,
meaning they are not always my best work. Often I am trying new and
different things and the new effort does not always give me the finest
prints, it does however help me to grow. I was planning a 3 color
reduction print for my exchange 42 print. Regretfully, at my husbands
prompting I chose to work in lino. After several years of working on
wood I found lino did not respond to my delicate lines. I tried this
morning to widen the lines as they were filling in too easily. It did
not work and I destroyed my design. I have done reduction prints
before but never pulled 31 of them so it would have been a stretch for
me. I now know why we have a work period that allows us to drop from
an exchange. Going in motivated, with free time and leaving with a
busy remodel schedule and no time to start a new carving. Hopefully
there are some sitting in the wings ready, able and willing to fill my
spot. Bye exchange 42.
If the time line works, for me, with the next exchange, I would like
to see it be a 3 color reduction print. I am one who moves back and
forth between oil and water and really not mastered moku hanga well.
I don't think oil is always easier, it is different. If you are
pulling oil based reduction prints you are really learning
registration, that is a big one. And reduction printing is not easy.
I also understand a painter going back to painting, I have been doing
a lot of that this past year myself. It is nice to have many
different ways to work. I love collagraph, did not realize it was
acceptable for our exchanges, in the future you will have one from me.
I really like to ink them first like an etching with one color and
than roll over the top for a second color, it is a fun thing to do.
Would that be acceptable for one of our exchanges?? Or would you want
a print that was only inked woodblock style? This gives me an
interesting and exciting idea for a multi colored print. One could
build a plate, roll it with one color and than build more onto the
plate and roll with another color, I will be experimenting.
Marilynn
meaning they are not always my best work. Often I am trying new and
different things and the new effort does not always give me the finest
prints, it does however help me to grow. I was planning a 3 color
reduction print for my exchange 42 print. Regretfully, at my husbands
prompting I chose to work in lino. After several years of working on
wood I found lino did not respond to my delicate lines. I tried this
morning to widen the lines as they were filling in too easily. It did
not work and I destroyed my design. I have done reduction prints
before but never pulled 31 of them so it would have been a stretch for
me. I now know why we have a work period that allows us to drop from
an exchange. Going in motivated, with free time and leaving with a
busy remodel schedule and no time to start a new carving. Hopefully
there are some sitting in the wings ready, able and willing to fill my
spot. Bye exchange 42.
If the time line works, for me, with the next exchange, I would like
to see it be a 3 color reduction print. I am one who moves back and
forth between oil and water and really not mastered moku hanga well.
I don't think oil is always easier, it is different. If you are
pulling oil based reduction prints you are really learning
registration, that is a big one. And reduction printing is not easy.
I also understand a painter going back to painting, I have been doing
a lot of that this past year myself. It is nice to have many
different ways to work. I love collagraph, did not realize it was
acceptable for our exchanges, in the future you will have one from me.
I really like to ink them first like an etching with one color and
than roll over the top for a second color, it is a fun thing to do.
Would that be acceptable for one of our exchanges?? Or would you want
a print that was only inked woodblock style? This gives me an
interesting and exciting idea for a multi colored print. One could
build a plate, roll it with one color and than build more onto the
plate and roll with another color, I will be experimenting.
Marilynn
Message 4
From: Viza Arlington
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:39:12 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39744] relief prints/ collographs
Send Message: To this poster
Hi all,since i never got a concrete answer to my question about whether or
not baren exchanges are open to all relief prints or just woodblock or wood
subtitutes carved by hand or machine and printed in relief i have decided to
stick to the later given the original intent of the group. I will keep my
relief etchings to myself or other exchanges.
viza
not baren exchanges are open to all relief prints or just woodblock or wood
subtitutes carved by hand or machine and printed in relief i have decided to
stick to the later given the original intent of the group. I will keep my
relief etchings to myself or other exchanges.
viza
Message 5
From: Bobbi Chukran
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:48:21 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39745] Re: Hi everyone. Although I have printed in relief usi...
Send Message: To this poster
>I have mostly been drawing and painting lately and haven't pulled a
>woodcut in over a year, I think!
>
Well, that makes me feel better now. :--)
bobbi c.
grackle stew studio
http://www.bobbichukran.com
>woodcut in over a year, I think!
>
Well, that makes me feel better now. :--)
bobbi c.
grackle stew studio
http://www.bobbichukran.com
Message 6
From: jennifer kelly
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:43:16 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39746] RE: Australia Calling
Send Message: To this poster
Thanks for the invite. When you settle into your new accommodation, I would love to take u up on that offer.As you know, I'm in Newcastle, a mere 2 hours down the road. Some of the things which attract me to the medium areThat magic look of the intensity of colour by using pigment. All things associated with thisThe difficulty of the medium. I love the sound of its demanding nature. There is nothing like a steep learning curve, and the challenge that is involved and the satisfaction of achieving this end. Being able to do something that not many people can do. At a local level at least, I will be able to set myself apart from other printmakers.
I'm a quick learner. I think I can have it under my belt by 48000 impessions.LOL
Message 7
From: Bobbi Chukran
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:04:09 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39747] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V48 #4962 (Sep 16, 2009)
Send Message: To this poster
>Bobbi.... welcome back, it's been a while, good you did not throw
>your art supplies away !!!
>
thank you, Julio! and I'm glad I didn't give them all away, either.
I even found a huge tube of ink today I thought I'd lost.
Ink is good. :--)
bobbi c.
http://www.bobbichukran.com
>your art supplies away !!!
>
thank you, Julio! and I'm glad I didn't give them all away, either.
I even found a huge tube of ink today I thought I'd lost.
Ink is good. :--)
bobbi c.
http://www.bobbichukran.com
Message 8
From: Bobbi Chukran
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:09:30 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39748] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing
Send Message: To this poster
Hi all,
Can anyone recommend an ink that will clean up with water, but be
waterproof once dry? I want to do some hand-coloring with
watercolors on my prints, but would rather not use oil-based.
Thanks!
bobbi c.
http://www.bobbichukran.com
Can anyone recommend an ink that will clean up with water, but be
waterproof once dry? I want to do some hand-coloring with
watercolors on my prints, but would rather not use oil-based.
Thanks!
bobbi c.
http://www.bobbichukran.com
Message 9
From: Viza Arlington
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:18:32 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39749] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing
Send Message: To this poster
Bobbi,i have used DANIEL SMITH Water-soluble Relief Inks in the past with
good results these inks are not resoluble once dry so they might be what you
are looking for. http://www.danielsmith.com/Item--i-G-284-220
Viza
good results these inks are not resoluble once dry so they might be what you
are looking for. http://www.danielsmith.com/Item--i-G-284-220
Viza
Message 10
From: Bobbi Chukran
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:22:39 GMT
Subject: [Baren 39750] Re: Water Based Inks and Printing
Send Message: To this poster
>Bobbi,
>i have used DANIEL SMITH Water-soluble Relief Inks in the past with
>good results these inks are not resoluble once dry so they might be
>what you are looking
>for. http://www.danielsmith.com/Item--i-G-284-220
>
Hi Viza,
Yes, that's the type I'm looking for. Thanks!
bobbi c.
>i have used DANIEL SMITH Water-soluble Relief Inks in the past with
>good results these inks are not resoluble once dry so they might be
>what you are looking
>for. http://www.danielsmith.com/Item--i-G-284-220
>
Hi Viza,
Yes, that's the type I'm looking for. Thanks!
bobbi c.