Today's postings
- [Baren 38185] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4716 (Feb 20, 2009) (Marilynn Smith)
- [Baren 38186] Re: all those recent postings... ("Clive.ca")
- [Baren 38187] Re: all those recent postings... ("Maria Arango")
- [Baren 38188] Re: all those recent postings... ("Roy")
- [Baren 38189] Re: all those recent postings... (Sharri LaPierre)
- [Baren 38190] Re: all those recent postings... (carol Montgomery)
- [Baren 38191] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V46 #4716 (Feb 20, 2009) ("phare-camp # imp-s.com")
- [Baren 38192] "Lucky" Oxen (Eileen Corder)
- [Baren 38193] Re: new member (Graham Scholes)
- [Baren 38194] Re: new member (Graham Scholes)
Message 1
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:03:45 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38185] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4716 (Feb 20, 2009)
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Benny,
I agree this is a very caring and sharing group. When I thought
about Dave and his needs for financial support I thought about how
supportive we are to one another. Dave has been a massive giving
force on this list from the start and still contributes a lot of good
advice. I find this latest series of prints to be more outstanding
than past works of his and personally I am surprised he subscriptions
are not higher.
I don't think people dislike art, they just don't understand what it
takes to produce it, market it and what costs we endure. Nor do they
understand the blood sweat and tears it takes to become good enough to
sell ones work. How many times have you heard, oh you are so
talented. They say it like you simply woke up one morning and were
able to create beautiful works by the dozens. They do not see the
training the trial and error the hours put in to become at least
adequate at what we do. Having an art degree does not have the same
status as having a degree in almost any other field. It seems people
do not see an artist as someone who works, but rather someone who has
some sort of magic ability. They don't realize that it takes time to
develop whatever skills we have, just like any other field. When
people say they can't draw, they do not realize that drawing skills
are developed just like an electrician learns about wiring. Yes, we
probably have the right stuff to learn it, but that is true of most
professions.
I think artists are accepting of the position we are placed in because
we create for the joy of creating. That is probably one other reason
people see us as not working as hard as other professions. We enjoy
our work and some how if you really love what you do you are not as
important as some one who pushes hard to climb the corporate ladder.
As a whole I think most artists are happier than most people. They
are also more caring and giving than most people. Most artists are
not highly competitive, they are supportive. In a world where
competition is valued (look at how we value our football and
basketball players) that lessens our value in the publics eye.
Further, you have to admit that buying a piece of art is a luxury, not
a necessity. So, they view artists and art education as a luxury.
I feel creativity is something we should value highly. Because, it is
the inventors and innovators who change the world. Teaching art,
music, poetry and such opens the mind to creative outlets, training
people to see beyond the ordinary barriers. Great people have great
vision, creativity is part of that vision.
Marilynn
I agree this is a very caring and sharing group. When I thought
about Dave and his needs for financial support I thought about how
supportive we are to one another. Dave has been a massive giving
force on this list from the start and still contributes a lot of good
advice. I find this latest series of prints to be more outstanding
than past works of his and personally I am surprised he subscriptions
are not higher.
I don't think people dislike art, they just don't understand what it
takes to produce it, market it and what costs we endure. Nor do they
understand the blood sweat and tears it takes to become good enough to
sell ones work. How many times have you heard, oh you are so
talented. They say it like you simply woke up one morning and were
able to create beautiful works by the dozens. They do not see the
training the trial and error the hours put in to become at least
adequate at what we do. Having an art degree does not have the same
status as having a degree in almost any other field. It seems people
do not see an artist as someone who works, but rather someone who has
some sort of magic ability. They don't realize that it takes time to
develop whatever skills we have, just like any other field. When
people say they can't draw, they do not realize that drawing skills
are developed just like an electrician learns about wiring. Yes, we
probably have the right stuff to learn it, but that is true of most
professions.
I think artists are accepting of the position we are placed in because
we create for the joy of creating. That is probably one other reason
people see us as not working as hard as other professions. We enjoy
our work and some how if you really love what you do you are not as
important as some one who pushes hard to climb the corporate ladder.
As a whole I think most artists are happier than most people. They
are also more caring and giving than most people. Most artists are
not highly competitive, they are supportive. In a world where
competition is valued (look at how we value our football and
basketball players) that lessens our value in the publics eye.
Further, you have to admit that buying a piece of art is a luxury, not
a necessity. So, they view artists and art education as a luxury.
I feel creativity is something we should value highly. Because, it is
the inventors and innovators who change the world. Teaching art,
music, poetry and such opens the mind to creative outlets, training
people to see beyond the ordinary barriers. Great people have great
vision, creativity is part of that vision.
Marilynn
Message 2
From: "Clive.ca"
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:12:55 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38186] Re: all those recent postings...
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Hi Benny, your post was interesting but I wonder if we all become too
subjective sometimes.
You wrote "It seems that most people in other fields have absolutely
no idea of the sacrifices that artists find routine". True, no doubt,
but how many people really know what other people's sacrifices are. I
look at almost anonymous Researchers in this town who spend endless
hours every day for years and years looking for some elusive bit of
information that will (possibly) be a help in solving a larger puzzle
that will eventually (perhaps) be of some use to humanity. That's one
small example; the world is full of examples of sacrifices made by
people and professions that the rest of the world knows little or
nothing about.
You asked: "Why do you think so many are prejudiced against loving
Art?" Is it really a prejudice? Could it not be just a different
focus? I don't share the love of cars/fashion/football/yada/yada/yada
that some people do but don't feel that I'm prejudiced against those
things.
And then there is Art's position in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs.
Let's face it, a picture on the wall isn't terribly important until
many, many other needs are fulfilled... a bird in the oven is worth
at least two Audubon paintings on the wall. If being creative is at
the top of Maslow's pyramid then perhaps the time to appreciate and
support creativity is somewhere up there as well.
I suspect that most artists produce in order to satisfy some inner
urge but if, justly or unjustly, they can't make oodles of cash
creating and that fact upsets them then they should find some other
venue. I agree that David Bull should be making a lot more, his work
is beautiful, but I don't think it's because of prejudice or because
nobody knows of his sacrifices.
Clive
subjective sometimes.
You wrote "It seems that most people in other fields have absolutely
no idea of the sacrifices that artists find routine". True, no doubt,
but how many people really know what other people's sacrifices are. I
look at almost anonymous Researchers in this town who spend endless
hours every day for years and years looking for some elusive bit of
information that will (possibly) be a help in solving a larger puzzle
that will eventually (perhaps) be of some use to humanity. That's one
small example; the world is full of examples of sacrifices made by
people and professions that the rest of the world knows little or
nothing about.
You asked: "Why do you think so many are prejudiced against loving
Art?" Is it really a prejudice? Could it not be just a different
focus? I don't share the love of cars/fashion/football/yada/yada/yada
that some people do but don't feel that I'm prejudiced against those
things.
And then there is Art's position in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs.
Let's face it, a picture on the wall isn't terribly important until
many, many other needs are fulfilled... a bird in the oven is worth
at least two Audubon paintings on the wall. If being creative is at
the top of Maslow's pyramid then perhaps the time to appreciate and
support creativity is somewhere up there as well.
I suspect that most artists produce in order to satisfy some inner
urge but if, justly or unjustly, they can't make oodles of cash
creating and that fact upsets them then they should find some other
venue. I agree that David Bull should be making a lot more, his work
is beautiful, but I don't think it's because of prejudice or because
nobody knows of his sacrifices.
Clive
Message 3
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:02:15 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38187] Re: all those recent postings...
Send Message: To this poster
There is a huge reason artists can't make money: too much supply, too little
demand. There are many of us "out there" and not enough walls (patios,
sculpture gardens, whatever).
This is VERY evident in some of the largest art festivals, where there might
be 500 artists with 100 works each and 50 galleries right behind our booths.
Jewelers, on the other hand, and people that sell clothing and purses, they
can make a fine living because there is no limit to the number of earrings
or purses that a woman might own.
Wall space, or drawer space.well, that's another matter. And the collectors
with plenty of drawer space for our neat unframed prints are few and
far(ther) between. Too many artists, too few collectors.
Maria
O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
Maria Arango
http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
demand. There are many of us "out there" and not enough walls (patios,
sculpture gardens, whatever).
This is VERY evident in some of the largest art festivals, where there might
be 500 artists with 100 works each and 50 galleries right behind our booths.
Jewelers, on the other hand, and people that sell clothing and purses, they
can make a fine living because there is no limit to the number of earrings
or purses that a woman might own.
Wall space, or drawer space.well, that's another matter. And the collectors
with plenty of drawer space for our neat unframed prints are few and
far(ther) between. Too many artists, too few collectors.
Maria
O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
Maria Arango
http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
Message 4
From: "Roy"
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:42:43 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38188] Re: all those recent postings...
Send Message: To this poster
Could it be that the non-support of art is that people are jealous of
artists. "They play all the time and expect to be paid for it."
But then that don't seem to apply to our athletes' play with one super bowl
ticket going for thousands.
But then again, as someone else suggested, they have the element of
competition/winning that artists don't.
Roy
artists. "They play all the time and expect to be paid for it."
But then that don't seem to apply to our athletes' play with one super bowl
ticket going for thousands.
But then again, as someone else suggested, they have the element of
competition/winning that artists don't.
Roy
Message 5
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:57:18 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38189] Re: all those recent postings...
Send Message: To this poster
Been thinking about Dave's dilemma, and I think I have the supreme
solution (of course, I think all of my solutions are strokes of genius
until my mate tells me otherwise). Here's my idea: anyone who would
like to support Dave by purchasing his work, but is already purchasing
his work, can purchase more for gifts. (If you have no one to buy a
gift for, you can always send it to me :-)) Especially if you don't
have children who are going to inherit your vast collection, purchase
prints for your friends, aunts, uncles, etc. They will make wonderful
wedding and house warming gifts. Maybe you would like to purchase
some to donate to a schools collection (we have a local Arts &
Academics magnet school, for instance.) How about this: buy them for
your parents, and maybe someday you will get them for yourself. Well,
maybe that's a bit macabre, but there are other good ideas in there.
Whew, all that genius is exhausting! But, before I nap, a few
thoughts on why the general populace doesn't love art the way we do.
Of course, the obvious is that they really know nothing about it.
They think of it as a mindless activity that is a reward for being
good, because that is the way it is treated in our schools. Until we
can turn that around, we are stuck with the status quo. Mind you, I
would have a stupendous idea on how to cure this situation, but I am
just all tuckered out from the first paragraph.
;-)
Love your quotes, too, Benny.
Cheers ~
Sharri
solution (of course, I think all of my solutions are strokes of genius
until my mate tells me otherwise). Here's my idea: anyone who would
like to support Dave by purchasing his work, but is already purchasing
his work, can purchase more for gifts. (If you have no one to buy a
gift for, you can always send it to me :-)) Especially if you don't
have children who are going to inherit your vast collection, purchase
prints for your friends, aunts, uncles, etc. They will make wonderful
wedding and house warming gifts. Maybe you would like to purchase
some to donate to a schools collection (we have a local Arts &
Academics magnet school, for instance.) How about this: buy them for
your parents, and maybe someday you will get them for yourself. Well,
maybe that's a bit macabre, but there are other good ideas in there.
Whew, all that genius is exhausting! But, before I nap, a few
thoughts on why the general populace doesn't love art the way we do.
Of course, the obvious is that they really know nothing about it.
They think of it as a mindless activity that is a reward for being
good, because that is the way it is treated in our schools. Until we
can turn that around, we are stuck with the status quo. Mind you, I
would have a stupendous idea on how to cure this situation, but I am
just all tuckered out from the first paragraph.
;-)
Love your quotes, too, Benny.
Cheers ~
Sharri
Message 6
From: carol Montgomery
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:14:06 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38190] Re: all those recent postings...
Send Message: To this poster
Hi, All - Wonderful discussion! What I have noticed is that modern cultures have divested themselves from artistic endeavor. People buy stuff that they don't make - they're sole artistic impulse is the decision on what to purchase. The result of this is that artists, poets, musicians, even, are marginalized. The aesthetic impulse is denigrated and attached and detached in a weird way from the profit motive. An example is the Plains Indian culture - everything they had, they made and it had to be portable and it was decorated and beautiful too. Unfortunately, if you want to see it now, their things are locked up in cases in museums of anthropology. Art is natural; ignoring it is unnatural. Sincerely, Carol Montgomery, Helena, MT
Message 7
From: "phare-camp # imp-s.com"
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:24:01 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38191] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V46 #4716 (Feb 20, 2009)
Send Message: To this poster
I just wanted to comment on paper in the jet printer. I've used masa and
mulberry paper with great success in the ink jet. I print on the smooth
sides. Both types of paper were used to make books. One was my 1st
edition of scarecrow prints; a collaboration with (Sacramento) Carol
Wagner. the text and color images of scarecrows were jet printed on
mulberry (8x20") I then block printed scarecrow keylines over the color
images. The sheets were then folded in half and bound into books by Carol.
You can see them in these blog entries:
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/bookarts-midterm.html
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/autmn-follies-first-five-spreads.html
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/autmn-follies.html
Masa is my favorite for inkjet printing.
well I've a tax prep appointment to prepare for...time to gather all my
artmaking biz financials....
cheers,
Patti
mulberry paper with great success in the ink jet. I print on the smooth
sides. Both types of paper were used to make books. One was my 1st
edition of scarecrow prints; a collaboration with (Sacramento) Carol
Wagner. the text and color images of scarecrows were jet printed on
mulberry (8x20") I then block printed scarecrow keylines over the color
images. The sheets were then folded in half and bound into books by Carol.
You can see them in these blog entries:
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/bookarts-midterm.html
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/autmn-follies-first-five-spreads.html
http://phare-camp.blogspot.com/2006/10/autmn-follies.html
Masa is my favorite for inkjet printing.
well I've a tax prep appointment to prepare for...time to gather all my
artmaking biz financials....
cheers,
Patti
Message 8
From: Eileen Corder
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:39:35 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38192] "Lucky" Oxen
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Hi All,
I sent out my "Lucky" Oxen today on a wing and a prayer. How will those
little cards make it all the way to Turkey and South Africa and Brazil?
Thank you for all I've received and all I have yet to admire. Quite a lovely
experience.
Peace,
Eileen
I sent out my "Lucky" Oxen today on a wing and a prayer. How will those
little cards make it all the way to Turkey and South Africa and Brazil?
Thank you for all I've received and all I have yet to admire. Quite a lovely
experience.
Peace,
Eileen
Message 9
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:06:45 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38193] Re: new member
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Hi Karma,
I noticed the comment on the bottom of the Baren posting.... A wish
item that I think I can offer assistance with.
I have produced a full length in depth teaching DVD that is all about
Woodblock Printmaking.... You can catch small glimpses of what is
covered in DVD video on my web site.
http://www.woodblockart.ca/how-to/
Have a look and know that it is the best way to learn this sport....
you can play the DVD over and over until you get it right.... (
> I want to learn better printing techniques, which assumes I am even
> doing it 'right' in the first place, as I learned from a booklet my
> art supply store sold in 1979ish, and I want to try wood block,
> since I have an idea it is more 'authentic' than linoleum block.
> Opinions? Or send me to the archive number where that was discussed?
>
I noticed the comment on the bottom of the Baren posting.... A wish
item that I think I can offer assistance with.
I have produced a full length in depth teaching DVD that is all about
Woodblock Printmaking.... You can catch small glimpses of what is
covered in DVD video on my web site.
http://www.woodblockart.ca/how-to/
Have a look and know that it is the best way to learn this sport....
you can play the DVD over and over until you get it right.... (
> I want to learn better printing techniques, which assumes I am even
> doing it 'right' in the first place, as I learned from a booklet my
> art supply store sold in 1979ish, and I want to try wood block,
> since I have an idea it is more 'authentic' than linoleum block.
> Opinions? Or send me to the archive number where that was discussed?
>
Message 10
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:08:42 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38194] Re: new member
Send Message: To this poster
Damn.... I did it again. Sorry guys I really must pay attention to
this.
Graham
this.
Graham