Today's postings
- [Baren 31915] Re: hanshita ("Terry Peart")
- [Baren 31916] Re: hanshita (David Harrison)
- [Baren 31917] Need a few members info for exchange 29a ("Robert Viana")
- [Baren 31918] Re: blog ("M Pereira")
- [Baren 31919] Re: hanshita (Charles Morgan)
- [Baren 31920] RE: hanshita ("Mike Lyon")
Message 1
From: "Terry Peart"
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:28:46 -0700
Subject: [Baren 31915] Re: hanshita
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I still think the reason sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't has to
do with how old the copy is, and probably whether or not the toner has had a
chance to "set-up and harden".
I suggest you all try it again with fresh copies.
Terry
Renton, Washington USA
do with how old the copy is, and probably whether or not the toner has had a
chance to "set-up and harden".
I suggest you all try it again with fresh copies.
Terry
Renton, Washington USA
Message 2
From: David Harrison
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:42:04 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31916] Re: hanshita
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Maybe there's something else -- I seem to recall reading that laser
printers fuse toner at a considerably higher temperature than regular
copiers.
Perhaps this copier uses a more laser-printer-like engine, as some of
the new combi machines seem to do? It might follow then that the toner
is fused more permanently to the paper.
cheers,
David H
printers fuse toner at a considerably higher temperature than regular
copiers.
Perhaps this copier uses a more laser-printer-like engine, as some of
the new combi machines seem to do? It might follow then that the toner
is fused more permanently to the paper.
cheers,
David H
Message 3
From: "Robert Viana"
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:43:15 -0200
Subject: [Baren 31917] Need a few members info for exchange 29a
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Hello friends!
I have all the prints that are coming for exchange 29a (Salon) I just need a few particpants info on their prints.
Richard Stockham
Julie Sparks
Murilo Antonio Pereira
Arafat Al-Naim
Daryl Depry
Please fill out this form for the colophon
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_29/exchangedetailsa.html
This is the last thing to be done before shipment!
Thanks,
Rob
I have all the prints that are coming for exchange 29a (Salon) I just need a few particpants info on their prints.
Richard Stockham
Julie Sparks
Murilo Antonio Pereira
Arafat Al-Naim
Daryl Depry
Please fill out this form for the colophon
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_29/exchangedetailsa.html
This is the last thing to be done before shipment!
Thanks,
Rob
Message 4
From: "M Pereira"
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:51:06 -0300
Subject: [Baren 31918] Re: blog
Send Message: To this poster
dear Julio
thank you for seeing my blog.
glad you like my work
have you seen a "painting on paper" I put there too?
(well, is painting on or in paper?)
all bareners
see my blog and let there some words
http://murilo-antonio.bog.uol.com.br
name of my blog is "sala de arte" "art room".
thank you for seeing my blog.
glad you like my work
have you seen a "painting on paper" I put there too?
(well, is painting on or in paper?)
all bareners
see my blog and let there some words
http://murilo-antonio.bog.uol.com.br
name of my blog is "sala de arte" "art room".
Message 5
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:21:37 -0700
Subject: [Baren 31919] Re: hanshita
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Hello Terry,
Perhaps you are right ... but ...
Prints from my older Lexmark laser printer transferred just fine with
citrus based solvent. However, the prints from my new Lexmark laser
printer do not transfer with citrus based solvent. Prints from both
machines transfer well with acetone.
Toner for laser printers and photo-copy machines is just fine plastic
particles with pigment. In the machine, the toner powder is
transferred to the paper and then "fused" (i.e. melted) using heat.
Various plastics are susceptible to different solvents ... e.g.
citrus based solvents usually come in plastic bottles. Change the
plastic in the toner and a solvent that used to work may no longer work.
Similarly, change the plastic in the toner and you may change the
temperature required to melt (or to remelt) the toner. I would not be
surprised if an iron worked with copies from some machines but not
from other machines, because the machines may well use different
plastics in their toners. Since all these toners are fused by heat in
the machines, there will be *some* temperature at which the stuff
will melt. But for some toners that temperature required to remelt
the plastic may be too high for commercially available clothes irons.
Now, before everyone starts shouting about toxicity: Acetone is
produced in the body. Acetone does not appear to be a carcinogen; nor
does it seem to be neuro-toxic. It is extremely volatile and very
flammable, so care in its use and good ventilation are necessary. It
will produce intoxication if inhaled in quantity. And as with all
such things, if you are particularly sensitive to it, then do not use it.
Acetone is a quite different product from lacquer thinner. Lacquer
thinner is a mixture of a lot of stuff; each manufacturer uses a
different mixture. But all the mixtures contain highly toxic stuff,
much of it quite carcinogenic. Because of its toxic properties I
would not use lacquer thinner, although it does transfer xerox and
laser prints quite well.
Maria's transfer process using a "key" block and a plastic sheet
works well ... sort of similar to flip registration with screen
printing. Gluing paper or plastic copies down on the block and
carving through them also works well; glued paper copies are of
course traditional. These methods have the benefit of reliability ...
they require no heat and no solvents.
I have not tried to do transfers with water based inkjet printers. I
asked about it on this forum several years ago, and the universal
opinion at that time was that it does not work. If the inks are
"re-wettable", as they used to be, it seems like it ought to work.
But if the inks are acrylic based, then once dry they will not
transfer with water. You could use the "key" block technique and
print copies of your key block onto paper with Speedball water based
ink. Speedball is rewettable, so you could transfer the dried image
using water.
No doubt no single method will be found suitable to everyone in all
circumstances. It is always beneficial to be familiar with several
alternative techniques ... just in case ....
Cheers .... Charles
Perhaps you are right ... but ...
Prints from my older Lexmark laser printer transferred just fine with
citrus based solvent. However, the prints from my new Lexmark laser
printer do not transfer with citrus based solvent. Prints from both
machines transfer well with acetone.
Toner for laser printers and photo-copy machines is just fine plastic
particles with pigment. In the machine, the toner powder is
transferred to the paper and then "fused" (i.e. melted) using heat.
Various plastics are susceptible to different solvents ... e.g.
citrus based solvents usually come in plastic bottles. Change the
plastic in the toner and a solvent that used to work may no longer work.
Similarly, change the plastic in the toner and you may change the
temperature required to melt (or to remelt) the toner. I would not be
surprised if an iron worked with copies from some machines but not
from other machines, because the machines may well use different
plastics in their toners. Since all these toners are fused by heat in
the machines, there will be *some* temperature at which the stuff
will melt. But for some toners that temperature required to remelt
the plastic may be too high for commercially available clothes irons.
Now, before everyone starts shouting about toxicity: Acetone is
produced in the body. Acetone does not appear to be a carcinogen; nor
does it seem to be neuro-toxic. It is extremely volatile and very
flammable, so care in its use and good ventilation are necessary. It
will produce intoxication if inhaled in quantity. And as with all
such things, if you are particularly sensitive to it, then do not use it.
Acetone is a quite different product from lacquer thinner. Lacquer
thinner is a mixture of a lot of stuff; each manufacturer uses a
different mixture. But all the mixtures contain highly toxic stuff,
much of it quite carcinogenic. Because of its toxic properties I
would not use lacquer thinner, although it does transfer xerox and
laser prints quite well.
Maria's transfer process using a "key" block and a plastic sheet
works well ... sort of similar to flip registration with screen
printing. Gluing paper or plastic copies down on the block and
carving through them also works well; glued paper copies are of
course traditional. These methods have the benefit of reliability ...
they require no heat and no solvents.
I have not tried to do transfers with water based inkjet printers. I
asked about it on this forum several years ago, and the universal
opinion at that time was that it does not work. If the inks are
"re-wettable", as they used to be, it seems like it ought to work.
But if the inks are acrylic based, then once dry they will not
transfer with water. You could use the "key" block technique and
print copies of your key block onto paper with Speedball water based
ink. Speedball is rewettable, so you could transfer the dried image
using water.
No doubt no single method will be found suitable to everyone in all
circumstances. It is always beneficial to be familiar with several
alternative techniques ... just in case ....
Cheers .... Charles
Message 6
From: "Mike Lyon"
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:47:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 31920] RE: hanshita
Send Message: To this poster
Ironing. I've pulled my hair out over this one, too. Toner for most dry
toner technology devices (laser printers, Xerox process copiers) is
manufactured from tiny carbon particles encased in thermoplastic. The
powder is temporarily adhered to the paper electrostatically and then fused
by passing the paper over a hot plate or roller. The fusing temperature of
the thermoplastic used in dry toner process varies from manufacturer to
manufacturer, but generally is between 150 and 200 degrees C (300 to 400
degrees F) which is quite a bit hotter than typical clothes irons gets (for
safety and liability reasons). So MOST dry toner prints can NOT be
satisfactorily transferred using a hot iron. I finally bought an expensive
industrial iron (supposed to reach 400 F) for heat transfer of toner and
even IT didn't work worth a darn on my HP LaserJet prints, giving only very
faint transfer. Perhaps this is because the bottom of the iron is not
particularly flat -- I've considered welding little beads onto the bottom
and then grinding them flat so that its surface is more baren-like, but I
haven't done that, so can't report. In any case, this iron is hot enough to
brown the paper but the toner still won't transfer well enough for my
purposes. I tried it with some fresh Kinko's copies with the same lousy
results.
I used to transfer toner using lacquer thinner and a press but no longer do
it that way (works well, but is really very toxic).
However the following low-tech techniques work VERY well and produce
extremely accurate registration:
This one is exceptionally fast and easy - many of my workshop students have
used this method in multiblock printing without any problem at all:
1. Prepare your laser print with the areas to be carved away printed
solid black and include the outline of registration marks on the sheet
(kento) if you use registration. This image must be reversed (flip
horizontal for instance) if you want the print to be right reading.
2. Prepare the surface of your block the usual way (plane and/or sand
flat and smooth)
3. Brush a thin rice-paste (consistency of cream to heavy cream) thinly
over the surface, squeezing off any excess with the heel of your palm and
then patting the entire surface quickly to assist in producing a thin and
even film of paste over the block surface. This entire process takes about
20 seconds.
4. Position the sheet over the block with the toner facing out. Wipe
the sheet flat using very light pressure with the heel of your palm to
prevent bubbles - as the paper absorbs water from the paste be careful not
to stretch it (but it tends NOT to stretch or buckle anyway)
5. Wait about 30 minutes for the paste to dry completely.
6. Carve away the black areas.
7. Dampen the surface of the block for about 10 minutes. Peel away the
paper - brush the block under running water to remove remaining specks and
paste.
This one is also exceptionally fast and easy - it's almost identical to the
traditional method and works well for multi-block printing where the printer
prefers to carve something akin to a key block freely and without any
particular planning in advance.
1. Carve a block however you like, but include kento carving for
subsequent registration.
2. Ink the entire block, including kento with SUMI but the block must
not be too damp and the sumi brushed out very evenly and thinly - keep it on
the 'dry' side
3. Using very thin, dry paper (cheap mulberry paper or unsized hosho
will work, but thinner, more transparent papers work better), place the dry
paper so that it covers the entire block
4. Print with baren (use a backing sheet if necessary) and set the
paper aside to dry - the block should have been dry enough so that the paper
doesn't become very damp anyway - you'd like to avoid buckling if you can.
5. Repeat printing a few more sheets than you imagine you'll require
6. For each block, repeat the following:
1. Prepare the surface of your block the usual way (plane and/or sand
flat and smooth)
2. Brush a thin rice-paste (consistency of cream to heavy cream)
thinly over the surface, squeezing off any excess with the heel of your palm
and then patting the entire surface quickly to assist in producing a thin
and even film of paste over the block surface. This entire process takes
about 20 seconds.
3. Position the printed sheet over the block with the printed side
against the block. Pat the sheet down flat using light pressure - as the
paper absorbs water from the paste be careful not to stretch or tear it.
Work very quickly to remove any bubbles and don't over work!
4. Wait about 30 minutes for the paste to dry completely.
5. Carve as desired using the printed lines as your guide and carving
the kento exactly. If the paper is too opaque to see the printed lines, you
may oil it to make it transparent or dampen it and rub away the fibers until
the line is clear.
6. Dampen the surface of the block for a few minutes. Peel away the
paper - brush the block under running water to remove remaining specks and
paste.
Good luck!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, MO
http://mlyon.com
toner technology devices (laser printers, Xerox process copiers) is
manufactured from tiny carbon particles encased in thermoplastic. The
powder is temporarily adhered to the paper electrostatically and then fused
by passing the paper over a hot plate or roller. The fusing temperature of
the thermoplastic used in dry toner process varies from manufacturer to
manufacturer, but generally is between 150 and 200 degrees C (300 to 400
degrees F) which is quite a bit hotter than typical clothes irons gets (for
safety and liability reasons). So MOST dry toner prints can NOT be
satisfactorily transferred using a hot iron. I finally bought an expensive
industrial iron (supposed to reach 400 F) for heat transfer of toner and
even IT didn't work worth a darn on my HP LaserJet prints, giving only very
faint transfer. Perhaps this is because the bottom of the iron is not
particularly flat -- I've considered welding little beads onto the bottom
and then grinding them flat so that its surface is more baren-like, but I
haven't done that, so can't report. In any case, this iron is hot enough to
brown the paper but the toner still won't transfer well enough for my
purposes. I tried it with some fresh Kinko's copies with the same lousy
results.
I used to transfer toner using lacquer thinner and a press but no longer do
it that way (works well, but is really very toxic).
However the following low-tech techniques work VERY well and produce
extremely accurate registration:
This one is exceptionally fast and easy - many of my workshop students have
used this method in multiblock printing without any problem at all:
1. Prepare your laser print with the areas to be carved away printed
solid black and include the outline of registration marks on the sheet
(kento) if you use registration. This image must be reversed (flip
horizontal for instance) if you want the print to be right reading.
2. Prepare the surface of your block the usual way (plane and/or sand
flat and smooth)
3. Brush a thin rice-paste (consistency of cream to heavy cream) thinly
over the surface, squeezing off any excess with the heel of your palm and
then patting the entire surface quickly to assist in producing a thin and
even film of paste over the block surface. This entire process takes about
20 seconds.
4. Position the sheet over the block with the toner facing out. Wipe
the sheet flat using very light pressure with the heel of your palm to
prevent bubbles - as the paper absorbs water from the paste be careful not
to stretch it (but it tends NOT to stretch or buckle anyway)
5. Wait about 30 minutes for the paste to dry completely.
6. Carve away the black areas.
7. Dampen the surface of the block for about 10 minutes. Peel away the
paper - brush the block under running water to remove remaining specks and
paste.
This one is also exceptionally fast and easy - it's almost identical to the
traditional method and works well for multi-block printing where the printer
prefers to carve something akin to a key block freely and without any
particular planning in advance.
1. Carve a block however you like, but include kento carving for
subsequent registration.
2. Ink the entire block, including kento with SUMI but the block must
not be too damp and the sumi brushed out very evenly and thinly - keep it on
the 'dry' side
3. Using very thin, dry paper (cheap mulberry paper or unsized hosho
will work, but thinner, more transparent papers work better), place the dry
paper so that it covers the entire block
4. Print with baren (use a backing sheet if necessary) and set the
paper aside to dry - the block should have been dry enough so that the paper
doesn't become very damp anyway - you'd like to avoid buckling if you can.
5. Repeat printing a few more sheets than you imagine you'll require
6. For each block, repeat the following:
1. Prepare the surface of your block the usual way (plane and/or sand
flat and smooth)
2. Brush a thin rice-paste (consistency of cream to heavy cream)
thinly over the surface, squeezing off any excess with the heel of your palm
and then patting the entire surface quickly to assist in producing a thin
and even film of paste over the block surface. This entire process takes
about 20 seconds.
3. Position the printed sheet over the block with the printed side
against the block. Pat the sheet down flat using light pressure - as the
paper absorbs water from the paste be careful not to stretch or tear it.
Work very quickly to remove any bubbles and don't over work!
4. Wait about 30 minutes for the paste to dry completely.
5. Carve as desired using the printed lines as your guide and carving
the kento exactly. If the paper is too opaque to see the printed lines, you
may oil it to make it transparent or dampen it and rub away the fibers until
the line is clear.
6. Dampen the surface of the block for a few minutes. Peel away the
paper - brush the block under running water to remove remaining specks and
paste.
Good luck!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, MO
http://mlyon.com