Today's postings
- [Baren 28970] Re: Flattening Moku Hanga Prints (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 28971] Drying Prints ("Tom Kristensen")
- [Baren 28972] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints (Annie Bissett)
- [Baren 28973] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 28974] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005) (jeb baum)
- [Baren 28975] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints (Bette Norcross Wappner)
- [Baren 28976] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005) (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 28977] Re: reduction prints..... (Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com)
- [Baren 28978] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005) (Mary Brooks-Mueller)
- [Baren 28979] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification (Blog Manager)
- [Baren 28980] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005) (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 28981] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005) ("robert")
Message 1
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:21:54 -0500
Subject: [Baren 28970] Re: Flattening Moku Hanga Prints
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Annie Bissett wrote:
>I'm having trouble getting my prints to dry flat. These are moku hanga
>prints on McClain's Masa Dosa, 10" x 15." My print has quite a lot of
>white space as well as some areas of heavy pigment and I found that as I
>printed, the paper buckled and stretched quite a bit. Now it won't dry
>flat, even though I re-moistened it to try to settle it. Any tips?
Hi, Annie -- buckling CAN be caused by stretching of printed areas in all
papers... David Bull once wrote me that paste shrinks more than sizing
when it dries, so if you used quite a bit of paste in your heavy pigmented
areas, that may also be a contributing factor -- you didn't mention what
pigments you used -- if they are prepared water-wash-up relief inks, those
tend to dry to a a stiff film which may tend to prevent the paper returning
to dimension. I've experimented with quite a few drying methods -- the
best (and easiest) results I've obtained have been with a blotter stack. I
use a VERY heavy blotter paper (about 1/8" thick) and interleave the prints
(no overlapping prints) between blotters and weight the stack under plywood
and bricks for five to ten minutes to pull most of the 'free' moisture out,
then move them to dry blotters and re-weight overnight, then remove them
and stack them to air dry another few hours. This works very well... If
(as occasionally happens on larger prints) there's still some disagreeable
buckling, I re-dampen them as if preparing to print and let them sit a few
hours to overnight, then repeat the drying process -- that seems to reduce
or eliminate any remaining buckling. Creosote panels cut to manageable
size also work very well -- they are bulkier and a bit harder to handle
than blotter, but retain their 'flatness' over time better than blotter.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>I'm having trouble getting my prints to dry flat. These are moku hanga
>prints on McClain's Masa Dosa, 10" x 15." My print has quite a lot of
>white space as well as some areas of heavy pigment and I found that as I
>printed, the paper buckled and stretched quite a bit. Now it won't dry
>flat, even though I re-moistened it to try to settle it. Any tips?
Hi, Annie -- buckling CAN be caused by stretching of printed areas in all
papers... David Bull once wrote me that paste shrinks more than sizing
when it dries, so if you used quite a bit of paste in your heavy pigmented
areas, that may also be a contributing factor -- you didn't mention what
pigments you used -- if they are prepared water-wash-up relief inks, those
tend to dry to a a stiff film which may tend to prevent the paper returning
to dimension. I've experimented with quite a few drying methods -- the
best (and easiest) results I've obtained have been with a blotter stack. I
use a VERY heavy blotter paper (about 1/8" thick) and interleave the prints
(no overlapping prints) between blotters and weight the stack under plywood
and bricks for five to ten minutes to pull most of the 'free' moisture out,
then move them to dry blotters and re-weight overnight, then remove them
and stack them to air dry another few hours. This works very well... If
(as occasionally happens on larger prints) there's still some disagreeable
buckling, I re-dampen them as if preparing to print and let them sit a few
hours to overnight, then repeat the drying process -- that seems to reduce
or eliminate any remaining buckling. Creosote panels cut to manageable
size also work very well -- they are bulkier and a bit harder to handle
than blotter, but retain their 'flatness' over time better than blotter.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 2
From: "Tom Kristensen"
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:53:15 +1000
Subject: [Baren 28971] Drying Prints
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Annie asks about drying warped prints and got a few good suggestions already. I would like to put in another vote for boards. When I started out I cut up a few sheets of 9mm birch plywood for carving and I had about 60 boards about A3 size. I soon discovered that these are also excellent for drying prints. I try to keep my prints as flat as possible during printing by paying special attention to the moisture, but they always need a final pressing to get a truly flat print. When an edition is finished I put them all through my stack of boards. First I use a spray bottle to dampen the back of each print and I let it go limp. Then I use a broad Mizu-bake brush, available at the Baren Mall, to brush the surface evenly. This will help restore any loose fibres that may have bunched up in the printing. I can fit two chuban sized prints side by side on a single board and I set about building up a stack. When I finish the stack I add some extra weight to the top (in my case a Fender head). Because the boards are super absorbent I can pull out a print a couple of hours later and it will be dry. Generally I leave them in for a full day and they come out bone dry and dead flat.
Tom
Tom
Message 3
From: Annie Bissett
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:09:21 -0400
Subject: [Baren 28972] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints
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Roy, about testing colors. I figure out how many blocks I'll need either in
my head or by scanning my sketch and trying out some colors on the computer
(I use Photoshop). Then after I've carved a block or two I try out actual
pigments on actual paper - just whatever cheap paper I have around the
studio. Then I live really dangerously and allow the first 5 or so prints in
my run to be test prints. I use those 5 at the beginning of each color run
to fine tune the tints and check the blocks for any little carving fixes
that are needed. I think that if your design requires very tight
registration or if you're very concerned with controlling color balance,
more test printing is needed. I think it's partly a personality thing, too.
I enjoy a little surprise and spontaneity in the printing, so I don't want
everything all worked out beforehand. (Also note that I'm a newbie - I just
finished my 8th moku hanga print!)
On flattening moku hanga prints, thanks for the great info (as always!).
Masa Dosa is a sized and handmade paper, kozo and pine pulp mix. It's not a
"fine" paper. I noticed that the thickness is variable, even in a single
sheet, and it seemed to stretch more in one direction than the other. It's
very soft when damp; I needed to use an ategami sheet under the baren. There
definitely was a problem with the white areas drying out faster than the
printed areas as I worked. Matt Brown taught me to stack my prints staggered
heads and tails to help keep moisture evenly distributed and I do keep both
piles of prints under damp towels and plastic, but I wasn't able to prevent
the uneven drying as I worked. I made my own paste, so that wasn't the
problem. But I worked that baren pretty hard!
When I checked my prints this morning I saw that it wasn't as great a
disaster as it had seemed last night. Only some of the prints are wrinkled.
I've ordered some blotters but not enough to do what Barbara has suggested
and they aren't here yet anyhow... So I'm going to go get some illustration
board this afternoon and use Dave's method in the link Julio gave:
http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/004_03/004_03_frame.html
Sounds like it will work. Thanks again.
Annie B
Northampton MA
my head or by scanning my sketch and trying out some colors on the computer
(I use Photoshop). Then after I've carved a block or two I try out actual
pigments on actual paper - just whatever cheap paper I have around the
studio. Then I live really dangerously and allow the first 5 or so prints in
my run to be test prints. I use those 5 at the beginning of each color run
to fine tune the tints and check the blocks for any little carving fixes
that are needed. I think that if your design requires very tight
registration or if you're very concerned with controlling color balance,
more test printing is needed. I think it's partly a personality thing, too.
I enjoy a little surprise and spontaneity in the printing, so I don't want
everything all worked out beforehand. (Also note that I'm a newbie - I just
finished my 8th moku hanga print!)
On flattening moku hanga prints, thanks for the great info (as always!).
Masa Dosa is a sized and handmade paper, kozo and pine pulp mix. It's not a
"fine" paper. I noticed that the thickness is variable, even in a single
sheet, and it seemed to stretch more in one direction than the other. It's
very soft when damp; I needed to use an ategami sheet under the baren. There
definitely was a problem with the white areas drying out faster than the
printed areas as I worked. Matt Brown taught me to stack my prints staggered
heads and tails to help keep moisture evenly distributed and I do keep both
piles of prints under damp towels and plastic, but I wasn't able to prevent
the uneven drying as I worked. I made my own paste, so that wasn't the
problem. But I worked that baren pretty hard!
When I checked my prints this morning I saw that it wasn't as great a
disaster as it had seemed last night. Only some of the prints are wrinkled.
I've ordered some blotters but not enough to do what Barbara has suggested
and they aren't here yet anyhow... So I'm going to go get some illustration
board this afternoon and use Dave's method in the link Julio gave:
http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/004_03/004_03_frame.html
Sounds like it will work. Thanks again.
Annie B
Northampton MA
Message 4
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:35:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 28973] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints
Send Message: To this poster
Annie Bissett wrote:
>Masa Dosa is a sized and handmade paper, kozo and pine pulp mix. It's not
>a "fine" paper. I noticed that the thickness is variable, even in a single
>sheet, and it seemed to stretch more in one direction than the other.
All Japanese papers intended for moku-hanga have a 'grain' or primary fiber
orientation and expand and contract more in one direction (across the
grain, like wood) than the other -- if the paper has laid lines, the
'grain' runs parallel to them -- if not, you may be able to determine the
fiber orientation by tearing -- the paper is more difficult to tear across
the grain. It's best in printing to align the paper grain parallel to the
wood grain, in both paper and wood the longer dimension should be in the
grain direction (less expansion and contraction and better registration
that way). Those 'clumps' and thickness variations are generally
undesirable in printing papers, as the thicker parts get pressed harder and
therefore pick up more pigment than the thinner areas -- but sometimes such
'mottling' makes a pleasing effect in the print. The 'best' papers are
very uniform throughout. You can hold your paper up to the light to get a
sense of how evenly the fibers have been laid down -- clumpy areas don't
let as much light through, so appear darker when backlit and you can see
the quality right away in dry un-printed paper.
>Matt Brown taught me to stack my prints staggered heads and tails to help
>keep moisture evenly distributed and I do keep both piles of prints under
>damp towels and plastic, but I wasn't able to prevent the uneven drying as
>I worked.
As soon as you sense that the paper (especially the edges) are stiffening,
you can relax it by brushing a little water across those areas (on the back
of the paper) with your mizu-bake or other brush -- even after the paper
has been placed onto the inky block! Moments after you brush a bit of
water along the drier areas, you can see the paper 'relax' and settle down
nicely and quickly. Matt Brown taught you well, I think -- but be flexible
-- the configuration isn't a 'rule'! Staggering prints to move moisture
from damper (just printed) areas of one print to less-damp areas of another
is best not done by rote -- rather be aware which areas of the sheet are
damper and 'customize' your staggered configuration accordingly for each
printing pass. Do whatever it takes to keep the moisture content
appropriate throughout, even adding a torn-to-shape dry newsprint between
prints to reduce a gross excess, or brushing a bit of water (don't leave
standing (glossy) water on the back of a print when you go to place the
inky side of the next print against it though) onto too-dry areas.
For what it's worth, especially when relative humidity is low, blotter
holds a LOT of water and is a much better moisture buffer than damp
newsprint -- it allows you to regulate the behavior of your printing papers
much more easily, I think.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>Masa Dosa is a sized and handmade paper, kozo and pine pulp mix. It's not
>a "fine" paper. I noticed that the thickness is variable, even in a single
>sheet, and it seemed to stretch more in one direction than the other.
All Japanese papers intended for moku-hanga have a 'grain' or primary fiber
orientation and expand and contract more in one direction (across the
grain, like wood) than the other -- if the paper has laid lines, the
'grain' runs parallel to them -- if not, you may be able to determine the
fiber orientation by tearing -- the paper is more difficult to tear across
the grain. It's best in printing to align the paper grain parallel to the
wood grain, in both paper and wood the longer dimension should be in the
grain direction (less expansion and contraction and better registration
that way). Those 'clumps' and thickness variations are generally
undesirable in printing papers, as the thicker parts get pressed harder and
therefore pick up more pigment than the thinner areas -- but sometimes such
'mottling' makes a pleasing effect in the print. The 'best' papers are
very uniform throughout. You can hold your paper up to the light to get a
sense of how evenly the fibers have been laid down -- clumpy areas don't
let as much light through, so appear darker when backlit and you can see
the quality right away in dry un-printed paper.
>Matt Brown taught me to stack my prints staggered heads and tails to help
>keep moisture evenly distributed and I do keep both piles of prints under
>damp towels and plastic, but I wasn't able to prevent the uneven drying as
>I worked.
As soon as you sense that the paper (especially the edges) are stiffening,
you can relax it by brushing a little water across those areas (on the back
of the paper) with your mizu-bake or other brush -- even after the paper
has been placed onto the inky block! Moments after you brush a bit of
water along the drier areas, you can see the paper 'relax' and settle down
nicely and quickly. Matt Brown taught you well, I think -- but be flexible
-- the configuration isn't a 'rule'! Staggering prints to move moisture
from damper (just printed) areas of one print to less-damp areas of another
is best not done by rote -- rather be aware which areas of the sheet are
damper and 'customize' your staggered configuration accordingly for each
printing pass. Do whatever it takes to keep the moisture content
appropriate throughout, even adding a torn-to-shape dry newsprint between
prints to reduce a gross excess, or brushing a bit of water (don't leave
standing (glossy) water on the back of a print when you go to place the
inky side of the next print against it though) onto too-dry areas.
For what it's worth, especially when relative humidity is low, blotter
holds a LOT of water and is a much better moisture buffer than damp
newsprint -- it allows you to regulate the behavior of your printing papers
much more easily, I think.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 5
From: jeb baum
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:29:35 -0400
Subject: [Baren 28974] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005)
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Hello all,
I have a question for those of you who do reduction prints:With oil
based inks, I am able to print, clean the block, carve, and print again
without interruption. With pigment and paste printing, the block is too
spongy to carve until it dries again which interrupts the immediacy of
the process. I am curious to know if and how people have resolved this
problem? Jeb
I have a question for those of you who do reduction prints:With oil
based inks, I am able to print, clean the block, carve, and print again
without interruption. With pigment and paste printing, the block is too
spongy to carve until it dries again which interrupts the immediacy of
the process. I am curious to know if and how people have resolved this
problem? Jeb
Message 6
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:38:36 -0400
Subject: [Baren 28975] Re: Test colors, Flat Prints
Send Message: To this poster
just like paper...i find myself flat in humility (and appreciation),
absorbing all the very cool tips that everyone shares here.
thanks to ALL!
bette wappner
kentucky
absorbing all the very cool tips that everyone shares here.
thanks to ALL!
bette wappner
kentucky
Message 7
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 28976] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005)
Send Message: To this poster
Jeb Baum wrote:
>I have a question for those of you who do reduction prints:With oil based
>inks, I am able to print, clean the block, carve, and print again without
>interruption. With pigment and paste printing, the block is too spongy to
>carve until it dries again which interrupts the immediacy of the process.
>I am curious to know if and how people have resolved this problem?
Yup -- done a lotta reduction hanga in recent years. I use a hair dryer to
speed block drying after printing (and I don't generally wash the block or
anything like that after printing) -- but my block doesn't really get wet
enough to be 'spongy' after printing -- I'm really only using the dryer to
quickly evaporate moisture from the printing surfaces and the end-grain in
adjacent cleared-away areas . I maybe spend a minute, maybe two, with the
hair dryer set to 'high' and then begin carving again immediately -- not
that I'm bothered by putting the block away overnight, though -- just
trying to get the edition completed before the paper spoils, usually. If
the surface does seem a little soft when I first begin to carve, then I
start with areas where that doesn't matter much, and by the time I get to
the little stuff, the block is as firm as it's going to be. Maybe you're
using too much water in too many places when you print? Or a very
absorbent wood?
Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>I have a question for those of you who do reduction prints:With oil based
>inks, I am able to print, clean the block, carve, and print again without
>interruption. With pigment and paste printing, the block is too spongy to
>carve until it dries again which interrupts the immediacy of the process.
>I am curious to know if and how people have resolved this problem?
Yup -- done a lotta reduction hanga in recent years. I use a hair dryer to
speed block drying after printing (and I don't generally wash the block or
anything like that after printing) -- but my block doesn't really get wet
enough to be 'spongy' after printing -- I'm really only using the dryer to
quickly evaporate moisture from the printing surfaces and the end-grain in
adjacent cleared-away areas . I maybe spend a minute, maybe two, with the
hair dryer set to 'high' and then begin carving again immediately -- not
that I'm bothered by putting the block away overnight, though -- just
trying to get the edition completed before the paper spoils, usually. If
the surface does seem a little soft when I first begin to carve, then I
start with areas where that doesn't matter much, and by the time I get to
the little stuff, the block is as firm as it's going to be. Maybe you're
using too much water in too many places when you print? Or a very
absorbent wood?
Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 8
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:55:56 -0500
Subject: [Baren 28977] Re: reduction prints.....
Send Message: To this poster
Jeb writes:
"...reduction prints.....the block is too spongy to carve until it dries
again which interrupts the immediacy of the process..."
I normally don't do reduction prints but I have done a few...normally I
split the work between "carving" days and "printing" days so the block has
a chance to dry (and my hands a chance to rest).....it takes me a couple
of hours to do a single impression run of about 40-50 prints...more if I
had to do lots of proofing...so If I was doing a reduction print I
normally would not proof, print and go right back to carving and proofing
& printing again in the same day...
What I found with reduction prints is that you don't have the luxury of
proofing a handful of blocks and checking for line registration & color
schemes and other things for your entire print....once you carve away wood
you have no way to go back to that stage....is scary but it also adds an
air of excitement to the whole process.....
If you use less spongy woods like plywood or pine, etc...and use solid
hardwood maple or cherry perhaps that might make a difference ????
Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)
"...reduction prints.....the block is too spongy to carve until it dries
again which interrupts the immediacy of the process..."
I normally don't do reduction prints but I have done a few...normally I
split the work between "carving" days and "printing" days so the block has
a chance to dry (and my hands a chance to rest).....it takes me a couple
of hours to do a single impression run of about 40-50 prints...more if I
had to do lots of proofing...so If I was doing a reduction print I
normally would not proof, print and go right back to carving and proofing
& printing again in the same day...
What I found with reduction prints is that you don't have the luxury of
proofing a handful of blocks and checking for line registration & color
schemes and other things for your entire print....once you carve away wood
you have no way to go back to that stage....is scary but it also adds an
air of excitement to the whole process.....
If you use less spongy woods like plywood or pine, etc...and use solid
hardwood maple or cherry perhaps that might make a difference ????
Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)
Message 9
From: Mary Brooks-Mueller
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:39:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 28978] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005)
Send Message: To this poster
If you are using pine or soft wood, as I often do,
before I cut them I ink up the block (oil base)
lightly and then hand rub off to clean it, leaving a
slightly polished surface even if grainy, like buffing
clean wood when making furniture with Tung Oil. I have
lightly sealed my woodblocks with tung oil and buff
hard to remove everything that doesn't soak in
immediately. After that, let it sit overnight and
begin the cutting the next day, ink as usual and
print.
Mary Ann
before I cut them I ink up the block (oil base)
lightly and then hand rub off to clean it, leaving a
slightly polished surface even if grainy, like buffing
clean wood when making furniture with Tung Oil. I have
lightly sealed my woodblocks with tung oil and buff
hard to remove everything that doesn't soak in
immediately. After that, let it sit overnight and
begin the cutting the next day, ink as usual and
print.
Mary Ann
Message 10
From: Blog Manager
Date: 14 Oct 2005 03:55:03 -0000
Subject: [Baren 28979] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
Send Message: To this poster
This is an automatic update message being sent to [Baren] by the forum blog software.
The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (8 sites checked, just before midnight Eastern time)
*****************
Site Name: BarenForum Group Weblog
Author: Mike Lyon
Item: Center for Contemporary Printmaking workshop pix
http://barenforum.org/blog/archives/2005/10/center_for_cont.html
*****************
Site Name: Woodblock Dreams
Author: Annie B
Item: Exchange Print: First Block
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com/2005/10/exchange-print-first-block.html
*****************
[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:
http://barenforum.org/contact_baren.php
The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (8 sites checked, just before midnight Eastern time)
*****************
Site Name: BarenForum Group Weblog
Author: Mike Lyon
Item: Center for Contemporary Printmaking workshop pix
http://barenforum.org/blog/archives/2005/10/center_for_cont.html
*****************
Site Name: Woodblock Dreams
Author: Annie B
Item: Exchange Print: First Block
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com/2005/10/exchange-print-first-block.html
*****************
[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:
http://barenforum.org/contact_baren.php
Message 11
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 28980] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005)
Send Message: To this poster
Put the prints into the freezer for a day or two...it works just fine to do this.
Best to you,
Barbara
Best to you,
Barbara
Message 12
From: "robert"
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:34:34 +0000
Subject: [Baren 28981] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V33 #3224 (Oct 13, 2005)
Send Message: To this poster
Hello everyone!
I just found a lumber yard that can supply me with nice pieces of cherry. I bought some yesterday and was wondering what the average price per board foot is? I think I got a real good deal on it, but I would appreciate some input from you folks. I am new to buying wood. I purchased some (3/4" x 5" x 12') planks with a nice even grain and very few knots if any. They also have really nice 3/4" cherry plywood with poplar core. I didn't get any yet but it is $124 for a 4' x 8' sheet. Is that an average price or on the high side?
Thanks all,
Rob
I just found a lumber yard that can supply me with nice pieces of cherry. I bought some yesterday and was wondering what the average price per board foot is? I think I got a real good deal on it, but I would appreciate some input from you folks. I am new to buying wood. I purchased some (3/4" x 5" x 12') planks with a nice even grain and very few knots if any. They also have really nice 3/4" cherry plywood with poplar core. I didn't get any yet but it is $124 for a 4' x 8' sheet. Is that an average price or on the high side?
Thanks all,
Rob