Today's postings
- [Baren 26744] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
- [Baren 26745] copy or not to copy (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 26746] Re: copy or not to copy (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 26747] Empty frames (John and Michelle Morrell)
Message 1
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 09:10:55 EST
Subject: [Baren 26744] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ?
Send Message: To this poster
Interesting discussion.
I think the quote is
"Imitation is the highest form of flattery", not that I'm saying I agree.
An historic art copyright case was the one of Alberto Vargas and Pin-up
girls, Esquire magazine. Very intersting and the one many refer to in their
research and precedents about copyright.
Also the sculptor David Smith, a teacher of mine, had a precedent- setting
case.
Been there, done that!
Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY
I think the quote is
"Imitation is the highest form of flattery", not that I'm saying I agree.
An historic art copyright case was the one of Alberto Vargas and Pin-up
girls, Esquire magazine. Very intersting and the one many refer to in their
research and precedents about copyright.
Also the sculptor David Smith, a teacher of mine, had a precedent- setting
case.
Been there, done that!
Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY
Message 2
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 07:55:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 26745] copy or not to copy
Send Message: To this poster
Lawrence,
Fascinating stuff. It is amazing how good technically some artists become, but fall down doing their own imagery. And I do mean artists, not technicians. There is a lot of artistic skill involved in copying others work, although with the new photo reproduction methods it might be a moot point in a few years. When one can photo a woodblock, scan it into a computer and have a CNC milling machine (this stands for computer numerically controlled, in case you were wondering what it means) cut the wood it is easy to see how great masters can be copied pretty accurately...still there is the printing. So guess as long as hand printing is needed we will not be totally obsolete.
At the summit many of us humbly brought our blocks, so amaturishly carved, to Dave Bull for printing help. He graciously printed, hour after hour, our blocks. To show us what could be done and how to do it. To say it was an eye opener just does not cover it. He did things we had not thought of, and so very well. A thrilling experience to learn from a master printer. I know Dave does not consider himself an artist, but I would think the rest of us consider him one. He also has the true spirit of a teacher, if you want to learn and are working at improving, he will help you. If you want to watch he will oblige. If you want to buy his work he will gladly sell it. If you want to learn by lip service and no action, he won't have any time for you as he is working and saving his time and eneryg for someone who truly wants to learn. And he sends the rest of us beginners out to encourage others, spreading what little knowledge we have.
I just had a student, Mimi, who is based in Portland but lives part time in the Indian Ocean on a 45 foot sail boat. She found me on Baren and asked for help in learning to print in the Japanese waterbased method while spending a couple of months in Portland. We had about 4 weeks of lessons before the tusnami hit and she returned to the Muldive Islands to help deal with the disaster and what was left of their boat. Mimi is already a very accomplished carver, having done lots of linoblock work. She did a wonderful wood carving and we were working hard at printing it. I tried to teach her a lot in a short time and hope it will be enough that she will work on her own now and keep printing and carving with wood. She wanted a process that would be waterbased to do while on the boat that would take up little room. Thankfully her husband was not injured, he is a pilot and was in the air when the tsunami hit. The boat needs repairs so they will be "homeless" for three or four months and of
course working hard to pay for the repairs.
I know how Dave feels when he sends us out into the world with a few "lessons" and then sees us a few years later. Did we really learn anything? Have we improved? Are we still excited about the processes? I will be so interested to see what Mimi does with the few lessons I gave her, how to use the hanshita paper for transfer, how to use the kento system for registration, how to print with the brushes and a baren, how to dampen the paper. How not to have everything too wet, the problem all beginners have. Fortunately she will have the baren encyclopedia and all of us to ask if she has a problem, also thanks to Dave. We did not have time to learn to tie the baren....it took me 4 years to learn it and Dave to finally teach me. But I am a slow learner and it seemed beyond me. So Mimi will have to find a teacher who can show her how to do this...or maybe on her next trip to Portland we can get it done!
Well, guess I will go out and tear some more pictures out of magazines so I will have some ideas to "copy" as I start my next works....we all need a starting point, even if it is only a compositional idea. We all copy from each other and have been doing so forever....
Lawrence, when you get those Durer pieces done, I would sure like one for my own collection. I don't even care if it is not an original.....I will appreciate it anyway! A good print is a good print, no matter who copies it or prints it. You just cannot have too many good prints.
Best to all,
Barbara
Fascinating stuff. It is amazing how good technically some artists become, but fall down doing their own imagery. And I do mean artists, not technicians. There is a lot of artistic skill involved in copying others work, although with the new photo reproduction methods it might be a moot point in a few years. When one can photo a woodblock, scan it into a computer and have a CNC milling machine (this stands for computer numerically controlled, in case you were wondering what it means) cut the wood it is easy to see how great masters can be copied pretty accurately...still there is the printing. So guess as long as hand printing is needed we will not be totally obsolete.
At the summit many of us humbly brought our blocks, so amaturishly carved, to Dave Bull for printing help. He graciously printed, hour after hour, our blocks. To show us what could be done and how to do it. To say it was an eye opener just does not cover it. He did things we had not thought of, and so very well. A thrilling experience to learn from a master printer. I know Dave does not consider himself an artist, but I would think the rest of us consider him one. He also has the true spirit of a teacher, if you want to learn and are working at improving, he will help you. If you want to watch he will oblige. If you want to buy his work he will gladly sell it. If you want to learn by lip service and no action, he won't have any time for you as he is working and saving his time and eneryg for someone who truly wants to learn. And he sends the rest of us beginners out to encourage others, spreading what little knowledge we have.
I just had a student, Mimi, who is based in Portland but lives part time in the Indian Ocean on a 45 foot sail boat. She found me on Baren and asked for help in learning to print in the Japanese waterbased method while spending a couple of months in Portland. We had about 4 weeks of lessons before the tusnami hit and she returned to the Muldive Islands to help deal with the disaster and what was left of their boat. Mimi is already a very accomplished carver, having done lots of linoblock work. She did a wonderful wood carving and we were working hard at printing it. I tried to teach her a lot in a short time and hope it will be enough that she will work on her own now and keep printing and carving with wood. She wanted a process that would be waterbased to do while on the boat that would take up little room. Thankfully her husband was not injured, he is a pilot and was in the air when the tsunami hit. The boat needs repairs so they will be "homeless" for three or four months and of
course working hard to pay for the repairs.
I know how Dave feels when he sends us out into the world with a few "lessons" and then sees us a few years later. Did we really learn anything? Have we improved? Are we still excited about the processes? I will be so interested to see what Mimi does with the few lessons I gave her, how to use the hanshita paper for transfer, how to use the kento system for registration, how to print with the brushes and a baren, how to dampen the paper. How not to have everything too wet, the problem all beginners have. Fortunately she will have the baren encyclopedia and all of us to ask if she has a problem, also thanks to Dave. We did not have time to learn to tie the baren....it took me 4 years to learn it and Dave to finally teach me. But I am a slow learner and it seemed beyond me. So Mimi will have to find a teacher who can show her how to do this...or maybe on her next trip to Portland we can get it done!
Well, guess I will go out and tear some more pictures out of magazines so I will have some ideas to "copy" as I start my next works....we all need a starting point, even if it is only a compositional idea. We all copy from each other and have been doing so forever....
Lawrence, when you get those Durer pieces done, I would sure like one for my own collection. I don't even care if it is not an original.....I will appreciate it anyway! A good print is a good print, no matter who copies it or prints it. You just cannot have too many good prints.
Best to all,
Barbara
Message 3
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 11:20:39 EST
Subject: [Baren 26746] Re: copy or not to copy
Send Message: To this poster
I have copied Durer prints to copy a master does wonders to your hand
eye coordination if nothing else. A great way to learn what you are able
to do. ember to copy was how the apprentice learned his craft.
something i think we should do now adays. so much was lost in trying to be
original artist esp with out the skill of our forbears
john center
eye coordination if nothing else. A great way to learn what you are able
to do. ember to copy was how the apprentice learned his craft.
something i think we should do now adays. so much was lost in trying to be
original artist esp with out the skill of our forbears
john center
Message 4
From: John and Michelle Morrell
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 12:49:34 -0900
Subject: [Baren 26747] Empty frames
Send Message: To this poster
Sharri wrote:
>As for "what" passes as art today - we are in a deconstructivist/post
>modern period - expect everything (or nothing) to be art - maybe that
>is what I will do - frame nothing, call it art, attach very large price
>tag. Has anyone done that, yet??
Ah, yes. Back in the early 90's we were staying in a brother-in-law's house
in Colorado Springs right after Christmas. In their Local special section
of the Sunday paper there was a big journalistic photo essay on framing
without art. The idea was, you find these lovely frames you just adore and
either mount them empty on your walls or insert something blank, such as an
attractive pastel-colored mat board. I felt vaguely insulted by the idea
but mostly bored by it.
--Michelle M.
jmmorrell@gci.net
>As for "what" passes as art today - we are in a deconstructivist/post
>modern period - expect everything (or nothing) to be art - maybe that
>is what I will do - frame nothing, call it art, attach very large price
>tag. Has anyone done that, yet??
Ah, yes. Back in the early 90's we were staying in a brother-in-law's house
in Colorado Springs right after Christmas. In their Local special section
of the Sunday paper there was a big journalistic photo essay on framing
without art. The idea was, you find these lovely frames you just adore and
either mount them empty on your walls or insert something blank, such as an
attractive pastel-colored mat board. I felt vaguely insulted by the idea
but mostly bored by it.
--Michelle M.
jmmorrell@gci.net