Baren Digest Tuesday, 14 October 2003 Volume 25 : Number 2406 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:10:24 EDT Subject: [Baren 23062] Arf! Art! well, folks, I realize that this should be posted on after-5 but since the original posting was on this list, here's a short report on the opening of "Unleashed" yesterday: In short, it was VERY festive! I think the dogs may have outnumbered the people. It seemed like the entire town showed up w/their dogs. I'm not sure what happened as far as sales, but there was certainly a lot of enthusiasm and nice feedback, and... of course, I took many pictures and made many friends (particularly canine ones) there. I did take a bag of dog biscuits, which made me very popular with the furry patrons. There was quite a variety as far as style and media of images, overall it was a lovely show. They also had some "famous" real dogs there, rescue dogs and their owners who had worked at ground zero, so of course it was interesting to chat with them as well. best wishes all, Sarah ------------------------------ From: "April Vollmer" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:14 -0400 Subject: [Baren 23063] Philadelphia and Red Hook Openings I was going to reply to Jack since I just successfully hand printed a fine plastic offset plate with Daniel Smith litho ink OVER a hanga print. They make about four kinds of litho black, I used "classic" which rolled up nice and dry for a clear impression. I printed on washi, which seemed to absorb enough oil so the ink was not moist to the touch. HOWEVER, I decided not to respond since Paul R. and John C. have so much more experience in this area than I! Plus I have other fish to fry...like inviting you all to two openings: October 3 to November 1, 2003 Reception: Thursday, October 30, 5:00 to 7:00 Inside Out, A solo show of Digital Prints Silicon Gallery Fine Art Prints 139 N. Third Street, Philadelphia, PA (James Mundie, this is your chance! It would be great to see you.) 215-238-6062 www.fineartprint.com October 4 to Nov 21, 2003 Reception: Friday, October 17th, 5:00 to 7:00 Nature Expanded (with David Lantow) Independence Savings Bank 498 Columbia Street at Lorraine Red Hook, Brooklyn 718-797-0323 I seem to have a lot of stuff going on right now, I just updated my list of shows and classes at http://www.aprilvollmer.com/exhibit.html#news I have been invited to teach in three places this summer: South Dakota, Santa Fe and Rosendale, NY, in case any of you are planning summer travel already. best, April www.aprilvollmer.com ------------------------------ From: "carol wagner" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:00:33 -0700 Subject: [Baren 23064] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 Paul, Concerning the <.... two papers that a lot of engravers use are Basingwerk and Stonehenge and both work very well...> I don't know where you found basingwerk, but we were told a year ago (in the paper trade) that it was no longer being made! Tough as nails, archival, most elegant, made of esparto grass, and perfect for letterpress as well as engraving, we thought we had found the last of this paper in the US about three years ago! If you know of a current source we would be greatly in your debt for that information! Carol in Sacramento ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:18 EDT Subject: [Baren 23065] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 I have not purchased any Basingwerk for quite a while and am sad to hear it is no longer available. The very smooth, hard papers are so hard to find - I think (THEY) would like us all to go digital. Thanks for the heads up. Also - Have not had a chance to say nice things about the workshop I took with April Vollmer several weeks ago here in Santa Cruz. Had a great time! April is a marvelous teacher and any bareners who get a chance should avail themselves of the opportunity to learn/refresh with her. Wonderful energy! Paul Ritscher ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:30:49 -0700 Subject: [Baren 23066] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 Interestingly enough - (and sadly too) Basingwerk also works well for hanga. In my paper experiments, it took the waterbase ink smoothly, stayed nice & crisp, & dried flat. Must have been the sizing or the "esparto grass" ? Then right after my experiments - it became extinct! Darn! Wanda on 10/13/03 8:00 AM, carol wagner at carolwagner#softcom.net wrote: >Paul, >Concerning the ><.... two papers that >a lot of engravers use are Basingwerk and Stonehenge and both work very >well...> > >I don't know where you found basingwerk, but we were told a year ago (in the >paper trade) that it was no longer being made! Tough as nails, archival, >most elegant, made of esparto grass, and perfect for letterpress as well as >engraving, we thought we had found the last of this paper in the US about >three years ago! If you know of a current source we would be greatly in your >debt for that information! > >Carol in Sacramento > > > ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:51:04 EDT Subject: [Baren 23067] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 p.s. i find stonehinge too hard and too rough for woodengraving esp since wood engraving should be printed dry ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:50:02 EDT Subject: [Baren 23068] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 - --part1_4d.360457cb.2cbc3fca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For wood engraving you need a smooth paper that you can print dry. Basinwerk is no longer made I liked the smoothness but not the color. The part about printing it dry is important with wood engraving due to the direction of the grain of the wood block matrix. Two things that can damage wood engraving blocks is the dampness of the paper if printed damp can cause the block to check as well if the wood gets damp it can cause the wood to expand. The other thing that can damage wood engraving blocks is if you print with hand made paper and there are any inclusions in the paper. On of the major differences between commercial wood engraving and fine arts wood engraving is how the block was used in the printing process. Generally commercial wood engraving after the invention of photo etched plates is that the block was only printed a few number of times and the printing was done off a matrix made from the printed copy. What was important was the making of an extremely clear copy some times they used a paper that was clay coated? And fine arts wood engraving needed a very smooth paper that would be archival. My fav. paper for wood engraving is arches silk screen because it is very smooth. With press printing you can print an almost unlimited number of prints from a woodengraving but had printing can damage fine lines in a wood engraving as the pressure is very uneven with burnishing a block with a hard object. Also press printing let you have a much larger choice of papers. For hand printing of wood engravings some of the smoother Japanese papers work the best esp. because you should not print the woodengraving with damp paper. Ink for wood engraving should be much stiffer than ink for wood cuts. john "maple" center ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:00:53 EDT Subject: [Baren 23069] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 I don't want to get into an argument with John C., but I think his answers are a little rigid. Wood blocks have been printed on dampened paper since the creation of printing and wood-engravings are no exception. The amount of moisture in a dampened sheet is enough to soften the animal glue sizing but not enough to saturate a block (rule of thumb: a dampened sheet should be dry to the touch but cool to the lips). The main problem with handmade paper is the impurities contained inside the sheet - the bark, fiber, etc. that is part of the process. I have printed on some beautiful papers made by Twinrocker with no damage, but there are some Thai papers that I wouldn't even think of trying to print on. There are many mould-made papers that benefit from dampening as well. Machine made papers should not be dampened because of the short fibers they contain. There are not too many papers available that are really good for wood-engraving and that is disappointing, but hand-made papers should not be dismissed. As for ink and drying - the ink you print with should dry in a few hours or a day at most - that is why drier was invented. I do use at times a Daniel Smith Litho ink, but that is only because of the black pigment it contains & I have to put in a large amount of drier otherwise it would take months to dry. I have another commercial ink that stays loose on a press but almost dries on contact with the paper. Inks are basically the same in composition (pigment, vehicle, binder, drier) it is the amount of each that makes a better or lesser quality ink. Etching inks have more oils for wiping, litho inks are denser to adhere to the surface of metal or stone, using the right tool for the job (as Mr. Natural says) is essential for the right outcome. Hasn't this horse been flogged enough? PR ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:27:12 EDT Subject: [Baren 23070] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 Commercial wood engravings were not printed wet. If you have to use damp paper to get what is in the block you are using the wrong kind of paper (your Mr. natural would say you are using the wrong tool). If you want to use a paper that has to be dampened that is your choice but it does cause problems. Some papers can cause problems with your blocks either because of inclusions or because they are too thick or hard. An example of a paper that is too hard is stonehenge if you are going to print only a few copies no problem but if you were to print a larger number it would wear out your lead type or even wood blocks. Remember news print was what they printed most wood engravings on but because we want the prints to last we use archival paper. Maybe if you printed on a very thin paper and then chincolayed it to a heavy paper that might work. Thomas Bewick who invented wood engraving never damped his paper. enough said john "of the dry press" center ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:26:38 -0500 Subject: [Baren 23071] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 My impression was that Bewick printed his engravings together with type, which was the benefit of being able to use wood engravings, as opposed to copper plates, which has to be printed separately. Or did he? If he did, then he most probably printed on dampened paper, since type was always printed on dampened paper. I'm not sure how authoritative this site is, but it says that Bewick used damp paper: http://www.btinternet.com/~graham.carlisle/bewickblocks5.htm Myron Turner >At 03:27 PM 13/10/2003, you wrote: >Thomas Buick who invented wood engraving never damped his paper. enough said > >john "of the dry press" center ------------------------------ From: Salsbury Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:40:05 -0500 Subject: [Baren 23072] Thanks again. Thanks again everyone for the pep talk. Catherine D. are you in the same building in Des Moines as Conchita Morales? I think the print club came to your studio about a year ago. We all thought you did wonderful pieces. If this is the same artist you all should see the lovely prints she is doing. Huge prints with lots of visual interest and energy. She was combining a central image with pattern and borders and then adding writing to them. At least that is what she was doing a year ago. The entire group hated to leave her studio, but we were making the rounds of several artist that day. Her studio didn't have water, but most of us would kill for a studio that large and as well lighted. Sue Salsbury ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 23073] cases for 18 and 18A If you want a case for these exchanges, let me know as we need to order them this week. They are $25 and you can get them at the mall, http://www.barenforum.org/mall/products/exchange_cases.html Be sure to let me know which exchange it is for so we get it to the correct coordinator. So far I only have about 5 ordered so know that more of you will want them out of the 50 or so signed up for these two exchanges. Lets get busy and order them so we can have them come by boat. If we have to air ship them we lose money...not a good thing. Hope everyone is printing madly....I admit I am a bit behind. Best to all, Barbara, Mall manager ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:16:31 EDT Subject: [Baren 23074] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2405 I should leave it to an expert on Bewick to tell us how he proofed his own engravings, I believe it was by hand burnishing but I do not know what kind of paper he would have used. Commercial engravings were often proofed on newsprint but wood pulp newsprint as we know it today didn't come into being until around 1875-80. In production commercial engravings were made into electrotypes which could take much more abuse than a boxwood block. Bewick's books were produced outside of his shop by commercial hand-press book printers who would have dampened the paper they were using. The people who choose to use dampened hand-made papers should be commended for the extra effort they put out to provide a better product on the best materials available. (Am I fogetting to mention that traditional hanga is printed on dampened hand-made papers as well?) I know from experience that it is more complicated but well worth the time spent. As Stanley Morrison said, "Fine printing begins where careful printing has left off". Paul Ritscher ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:02:28 -0700 Subject: [Baren 23075] dead horse charset="US-ASCII" On the papers for wood engraving issue, I found the following characteristics are desirable, if not crucial: - -smooth - -not "spongy" - -smooth - -pliable - -smooth And finally, - -smooth With that in mind, I have successfully printed engravings on dry (found dampening is unnecessary for engravings in my experience): - -Basingwerk - -Zerkall book - -Magnani Pe$cia - -Arches 88 (aka silk screen) - -Torinoko - -Stonehenge, although, like John of the Furry Maple Dry Press mentions, it is a bit "hard" so it shifts when printing by hand; not pliable enough but good 'nuff for the Maria of the Dry Corian Boxwood Press. It is also a bit spongy so inking carefully is necessary to avoid that fuzzy line look (no relation to John Furry) - -Rives lightweight - -Lana Royal - -Okawara (Machine made), really almost any of the smooth or sized Japanese papers are ideal for engraving, Goyu, Kitakata - -Masa, good for proofing and experiments since it is cheap, but also very nice pure white As far as inks, I agree they need to be stiffer than relief, but Graphic Chemical's relief inks are pretty perfect right out of the can IMHO. Also the papers above can all be obtained from them. Happy end-grain! Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango maria#mariarango.com Las Vegas Nevada USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: jack reisland Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:08:58 -1000 Subject: [Baren 23076] Re: dead horse Thanks all for the (sometimes conflicting) advice on printing my wood engraving. This gives me plenty of variables to try. Jack R. ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V25 #2406 *****************************