Baren Digest              Wednesday, 26 March 2003      Volume 22 : Number 2171


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From: "Jean Womack" <jeaneger#jeaneger.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:40:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 21120] Re:   Baren Digest V22 #2170 

I think war and peace is a good theme for an international art group.  There
is lots of latitude for subject matter and interpretation of the theme.  It
has a lot of precedent in art history.   Let people have a voice.  Anyway, I
have made a print about each conflict the US has been in since 1991,
starting with Somalia, so I won't have much trouble coming up with an image.
That is, if I sign up in time.  I could have a one woman show just with
those prints, if I could get anyone to show them.
Jean.

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:43:54 -0800
Subject: [Baren 21121] presses 


I have a Dan Patrick press and am VERY pleased with it. I thought this 
would be of interest to others on the list.

Cheers ... Charles


>Hi everyone.
>
>I thought some of the folks here and over at PA and the Baren ---
>(maybe some one would be kind enough to post this) -- would be
>interested to know that that these presses will be available again.
>
>Dan Patrick who was the builder has sold his business and will be
>assisting the new buyer with the continued production of these
>wonderful press.
>
>The persons name is Tom Rhodes and he just informed me that he is
>presently building a press with the guidance of Dan Patrick to insure
>the standard is maintained.
>
>He can be reached at:
>trhodes#mars.ark.com
>Web site is being developed.
>
>Tom Rhodes
>1891 Little River Rd.,
>Comox, BC.
>V9M 4B9
>Phone... 250 890 0839
>
>I know of 7 people locally that own a Dan Patrick press. I know of
>several people States side that have purchased them and are to my
>knowledge all are pleased. They have been in used at two major
>Colleges here in BC and come highly recommended. The expression is....
>if they stand up to the student use they will stand up to anything you
>and I can deal them
>
>The price for my table model 25" x 42"bed. I paid $1500.00.... or ...
>1013.00 US. Tom tells me he is holding the same price structure.
>
>You can see mine at....http://www.woodblock.info/press.html
>
>Regards
>Graham
>
>PS. I have no vested interest in the production and am posting this as
>a service to a fellow Canadian.



------------------------------

From: Louise Cass <lcass#primus.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:36:20 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21122] Re: presses 

At 07:43 AM 3/25/03 -0800, you wrote:

> I have a Dan Patrick press and am VERY pleased with it. I thought this
>would be of interest to others on the list.
> 
> Cheers ... Charles
> 
> 

Charles (or Graham)-

Would you know how this press compares with PRAGA's junior etching press
which sells
for the same price but has a much smaller bed?? I need something (not too
heavy) to go on table
as I have my studio in a residential building 
thanks
Louise C.
http://www.LCassArt.com

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:23:52 -0600
Subject: [Baren 21123] Show & TellI  


I put up a couple of pics that Dan sent up on the Show & Tell page....more 
photos later tonight.

http://barenforum.org/messageboard/guestbook.html

If we all look sad....is because we were hungry....look at the expression 
on Dan's face after the food arrived!!!!

Julio

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:13:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 21124] Re: presses 

Hello Louise,

I have a smaller press made by Dan Patrick... 18" x 36". It sits on the end 
of a library table in my studio on the second floor of my house. I paid Dan 
Patrick under $1000 Canadian ... I do not remember the exact price. The 
Praga price for the comparable size was about 3 times that much. Praga 
lists their prices in US dollars, so you have to watch the exchange rate. 
Praga certainly was my second choice ... I believe they make very good 
equipment, but I have no first hand experience.

As I recall, one difference between the Praga press and the one I bought is 
that the Praga press bed was steel, while mine is like a counter top ... 
MDF with a formica coating. This is a very common bed in less expensive 
presses. At first, the steel sounded better to me ... more robust, etc. But 
as I investigated, I found a number of drawbacks.

Steel rusts, formica does not. Steel is a LOT heavier, for shipping and 
moving your press around. The steel bed will eventually warp, so you have 
to turn it over from time to time. The counter top bed will flex, but will 
spring back to its original shape better than steel.

If you need to replace the bed for any reason, you can have a "counter top" 
bed made very cheaply by any kitchen cabinet shop, or you can buy a used 
counter top VERY cheaply ... or scrounge for no cost a used counter top and 
cut your own with a skill saw. This is a REAL plus if you decide you want a 
longer bed. I could easily put a 48" bed on my press, or an 8 foot bed, if 
I wanted one ...

I suppose you could put on an extra long bed of steel, but it would be VERY 
expensive and VERY heavy. Replacing a steel bed is not cheap. You will not 
find big sheets of smooth cast off steel plate the way you will find old 
counter tops. And cutting steel plate requires special equipment.

And, if I ever decide I want a steel bed, I can go to a machine shop or a 
welding shop and have them cut one for me ... it would not be cheap, but 
cheaper than the price difference between the two presses.

My general line is ... you can print small plates on a big press ... you 
cannot print big plates on a small press. And, no matter how big it is, 
your press is never as big as you would sometimes like it to be.

I like the people at Praga. They are helpful and I think their presses are 
good quality. I have bought other equipment from them and have always been 
pleased.

Cheers .... Charles

At 11:36 AM 3/25/03 -0500, you wrote:

>At 07:43 AM 3/25/03 -0800, you wrote:

> > I have a Dan Patrick press and am VERY pleased with it. I thought this
> >would be of interest to others on the list.
> >
> > Cheers ... Charles
> >
> >

>Charles (or Graham)-
>
>Would you know how this press compares with PRAGA's junior etching press
>which sells
>for the same price but has a much smaller bed?? I need something (not too
>heavy) to go on table
>as I have my studio in a residential building
>thanks
>Louise C.
>http://www.LCassArt.com



------------------------------

From: Sharri LaPierre <Barebonesart#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:04:14 -0800
Subject: [Baren 21125] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2170 

As long as we're mentioning Print Collections at Museums 
(Chicago & Portland have been brought up) I'll throw in the wonderful collection 
at the Mayer Print Center in Madison, WI at the Elvehem Museum (I know 
I haven't spelled that correctly).  They have a fantastic collection 
and beautiful print center.  Put this one down also as a "don't miss".

Sharri


------------------------------

From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:04:01 EST
Subject: [Baren 21126] Re: presses 

I have a vandercook proofing press    cost me 100$  and works wonderfully for 
relief prints as that is what it is made for.    the same size etching press 
would have cost me 3,000 and not done as good a job

------------------------------

From: b.patera#att.net
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:22:15 +0000
Subject: [Baren 21127] Re: "About the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse" 

Julio,

What a wonderful experience! Wish I had been with you. I especially envy you 
seeing the Kollwitz and Baskin prints up so close.... they are two of my 
favorite printmakers. 

Actually, envy you the Art Institute. It is one of the things I truly miss now 
that I'm living in the Seattle area. Used to spend hours/days there... starting 
with the first school fieldtrip when 7 yrs. old. In fact, still have the 
African mask (plaster replica) I bought with my allowance and lunch money, in 
the museum gift shop, almost sixty years ago.

Barbara P.




> Dimitris wrote:
> "About the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse...."
> 
> What a great print that is !!!! Durer's "The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse". I 
> just had a close real encounter of the 
> personal kind with this print. 
> 
> Have you ever closed your eyes and watched the whole history of 
> printmaking flash before your eyes ?
> 
> I had such an experience last week....but my eyes were not closed, but 
> rather wide open. I got invited to go down to the Chicago Arts Institute 
> Prints-Room for a private lecture-walkthru. A friend's printmaking teacher 
> is an AIC graduate and took the class down for a private "show", I tagged 
> along...and what a show it was ! 
> 
> Imagine entering a room an having out on display for you thirty or so 
> prints....works by Durer(5), Kollwitz, Masereel, Eichenberg, Baskin, 
> Munch, Gaugin, Lichtenstein, Frankenthaler...etc.... the real McCoys !!! 
> No glass, no frames...just the prints.....now imagine having your nose 
> inches away !  Careful....don't let that drooling touch the prints !  What 
> a treat !!!!
> 
> The five Durer prints, Munch's Kiss, Eichenber's print of a military 
> escort and Kollwitz woodcut print of a funeral were magnificent. Perhaps 
> is the naure of out times, but could not help but notice that many of the 
> prints on display for us spoke of man's enduring grief and suffering. 
> 
> The small group of about eight of us were only allowed about an hour and a 
> half with these treasures but what an hour and a half  it was !  Just so 
> you don't think I am turning a new leaf here....aftewards, we did sneak 
> down to the main Oriental room to see an exhibit of 30+  Hiroshige's 
> prints (moku hanga) from the Clarence Buckingham collection.
> 

thanks....Julio Rodriguez

------------------------------

From: Louise Cass <lcass#primus.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:13:22 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21128] Re: presses 

At 03:04 PM 3/25/03 EST, you wrote:

>I have a vandercook proofing press    cost me 100$  and works wonderfully

for 

>relief prints as that is what it is made for.    the same size etching press 
>would have cost me 3,000 and not done as good a job
>


Yes, I've heard that the Vandercook is what does the job but where does one
find
one for a low price?? You must have acquired yours eons ago?? secondhand? Can
it be used in a residence like the Dan Patrick one Charles mentions?

Thanks for the info' Charles - I imagine shipping would bring the price of
the Dan Patrick up a lot -
and yes, it seems I was looking at the Praga price in $U.S. only advantage
to Praga is that I wouldn't have to pay shipping but can't afford the several
$1000 anyway - problems! maybe someone knows of a small press that would
cost me under $1000 or pref. $500 with shipping - I guess I'll have to go on
dreaming and keep handprinting and painting- paint and canvas are so much
cheaper!

thanks again for the replies
Louise C.  
http://www.LCassArt.com

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:18:17 -0800
Subject: [Baren 21129] Re: presses 

Louise,

I was looking for a Vandercook before I bought my etching press a couple of 
years ago. Frankly, the Vandercook is not nearly as versatile ... can't do 
etchings, for example.

There is a place in Toronto that sells used printing equipment ... they had 
several proofing presses, some Vandercooks. Check the internet. If you 
absolutely have no luck, I will try to dig it out for you. Prices were $300 
and up, plus shipping. So if you are doing mostly relief stuff and price is 
a real issue, give them a dingle.

You also might be able to find an old book binding press. I have managed to 
find two in antique stores. Paid $200 for one and $400 for a larger one.

On the other hand, a bottle jack press is pretty cheap!!!

Cheers ....... Charles

At 05:13 PM 3/25/03 -0500, you wrote:

>At 03:04 PM 3/25/03 EST, you wrote:

> >I have a vandercook proofing press    cost me 100$  and works wonderfully

>for

> >relief prints as that is what it is made for.    the same size etching 

> press

> >would have cost me 3,000 and not done as good a job
> >

>
>Yes, I've heard that the Vandercook is what does the job but where does one
>find
>one for a low price?? You must have acquired yours eons ago?? secondhand? Can
>it be used in a residence like the Dan Patrick one Charles mentions?
>
>Thanks for the info' Charles - I imagine shipping would bring the price of
>the Dan Patrick up a lot -
>and yes, it seems I was looking at the Praga price in $U.S. only advantage
>to Praga is that I wouldn't have to pay shipping but can't afford the several
>$1000 anyway - problems! maybe someone knows of a small press that would
>cost me under $1000 or pref. $500 with shipping - I guess I'll have to go on
>dreaming and keep handprinting and painting- paint and canvas are so much
>cheaper!
>
>thanks again for the replies
>Louise C.
>http://www.LCassArt.com



------------------------------

From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying#Maineline.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:25:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21130] website up/role of art in digital age/war/sustainablity/transformation 

Hello Bareners 
  I feel that all the topics we are now discussing
 are quite interrelated in very subtle ways
though they may not at first appear to be--

i checked out my website and my guy,kevin, says-
 its up there and working
i, also, can get to it when i try

kevin says--

 " Yes the site is up and working fine.  I am at home tonight and I was able
to get to the site fine on my fathers ancient Pentium 90 computer :)

You will need to ask people what web address they are checking, it should be
www.gattowoodcuts.com   (as you know ;)

Next would be to ask what browser they are using and if it is the latest
one.  If not they should go download IE 6.0 or Netscape 7.0+

If they are not getting to the site what are they seeing?

Have them drop me a call at 1-866-708-7998 and I can try to help them.  Just
have them mention that I suggested they call and also about what site."


so-- you may or may not be able to get to my website and
 look at the birch plywood print called" Solstice Farewell"
that i mentioned in conjunction with a discussion about
 how
 art conveys its feeling/emotion to the viewer--
is it intuitive?
 and does that power to convey  become lost
 when the art is reproduced mechanically ?

at any rate,  i would say that, for the same reason
 Bill Ritchie is explaining-- about the mechanical reproduction
 taking the aura away from a print.
 i believe that
 the intuitive feeling that is in my hand- printed piece
is NOT conveyed by the digital
  but exists only in the original-so it most likely would not
 cause you to burst into tears as it did many recipients of the  hand
printed original


 Bill also asks:

"Today I wonder What is the work of art in the age of digital reproduction?
And I'm striving to discover the form that art in this age will take. I
don't expect it to have anything to do with politics, of swaying masses of
people this way or that. On the other hand, maybe Benjamin's observation is
100% correct and despite what we wish, our printmaking art is political if
it is anything at all."

in a recent off line discussion i was commenting to Bill that
 i feel  that art today has the responsibility to create new icons
 which will bring about an evolution toward  sanity on our planet

this does not mean creating "soviet style posters" or whatever someone
called it
but  utilizing the power of hand carved work to create images
that sink into the viewers subconcious   in positive ways
in ways that have positive repercussions

I think to totally ignore the political would be to
 live in denial
 in ones own little bubble   unaware of the rest of the world

an artist must express  and respond  to  the world
as Dimitris so eloquently stated
but-
we have to accept and allow   each one    of our responses
there is no  right one
each one is right to the person who is expressing it
and argument is futile

i believe working in woodcuts -the first method of printing words,
the method that the masses were" given their values in-"
that is-- in the early bibles-- just might be the method  of choice for
re-educating them,the masses, to a more compassionate way of being
a new spiritual awakening

   Bill Ritchie  also  said:

"My hope is that the work (as in the verb form of "Work") of art is toward
sustainability of human life on Earth. The Union of Concerned scientists
estimated in 1992 that human life would not be sustainable by the year 2022,
at the most optimistic reasoning, unless five major problems were addressed
and measurable progress were made in their solution.

Do artists have a role in this? Is art education up to the challenge of
helping today's and tomorrow's artists work in this direction? The first
challenge would be to continue learning to distinguish when one's creative
imagination is working for politics or working for art's sake."

do artists have a role in  helping to create a sustainable world?

in my opinion artists would be the ones who would take a leading role
in creating a sustainable world
  because it takes  an open creative and even inspired mind
 to think up new ways to do things,
new ways to live
 everyone can add some sustainability into their own life
where ever they live
artists can be the first to notice the need for this
 and change in creative ways

i use solar electric power and heat my hot water with woodfire at  present-
but on april 26-7  i will host a hands- on workshop
 led by my
 a 'solar expert' friend - Charles Ewing from"SEADS SOLAR"
to add solar hot water heating to my capacities

those who take the workshop will become familiar  with
 living with solar energy, learn about and make solar cells,
 learn soldering,learn to use a multimeter, and begin the construction of
 a solar hot water heater/photovoltaic collector
 which will double my electric output and
 will be finished and mounted on my roof at a later workshop
hopefully the workshop goers become excited and
 want to do one at their own home and it begins a snow- balling towards
homepower
 for the average home owner in rural downeast maine

 we are part of a "million solar roofs" project in Maine
aiming to get folks into utilizing the sun and wind at home

i noticed these "concerned scientists" Bill mentions
 dont seem to be concerned
 for plants and animals ?
 they only mention  humans??
as the rest of the species on our planet
wait for us to wake up , and stop ruining our , and their ,  home;

we need to sustain   WITH everything else  on earth too.
"economy " needs to take into account "ecology"

war is not a sustainable activity
it is terrible for plants and animals (and humans)
it really is as simple as that
 learning how to stop our addiction to it as a species,
seems to be the hard part.......

in my humble opinion
 an "artist"  would be the first to know this and
 than do something about it
what i do:
my whole life is a statement of how to live a little differently
more in step with the  natural world, more hands on,more self sufficient
my solstice cards often depict solar arrays  and
 i do utilize words in my woodcuts when i feel
 they might bring positive messages to open minds
i write essays which express my beliefs and publish them

 my  geo-victorian cabin, which i designed and built,
 is' living achitecture'
(as Friedensreich Hundertwasser  termed it)
that is,- the architech/bricklayer/dweller is the same person
and the spirit or aura of the house  does not get lost
 in the mechanical reproduction of" housing"
Hundertwasser was an Austrian artist who collaborated with
 master japanese woodcut artists to reproduce his paintings.
he had some, IMHO, great and unique ideas about art and about life.
Barbara Mason  just mentioned seeing some Hundertwasser work-
was it these  polychrome woodcuts i read about, Barbara ,
in my book-THE ALBERTINA EXHIBITION OF
 HUNDERTWASSER'S COMPLETE GRAPHIC WORK  1951-1975
he was the first European painter" to be cut by Japanese masters'
in '73
  i love his large, luminous,  metalic images that somehow-for me-
 transform into~
' the spirit of the earth , blended ,
 instead of at odds with,  the spirit of humans .'

Hundertwasser felt that the artist  must work for society as a whole,
not just  the elite, ,he must not just contemplate- but help change
 the world.
in the founding manifesto of the Albertina-a collection of graphic art set
up in the late 18th/early 19th  century  by Duke Albert of Saxe Teschen-
 it  says-  art should be recognized
as a" formative element of ethic value and purpose"-which is my own point
about art /icons entering the subconscious
and influencing human values...

..we can consciously help that along...

  i see  alot of my  artist friends also are the ones
who are noticing the sustainablity issue-
 are we going to be brought to our knees
 by
war, disease, etc  or will we rise
 in the spirit
 of our own creativity
to
transformative levels of work ?
within our own selves
and without in the neighborhood and world

the choice  is each of ours-

and my choice for a theme for exchange #17
 is

TRANSFORMATION

gillyin


------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:39:38 -0600
Subject: [Baren 21131] Re: Kollwitz & war........ 

Barbara P. writes:
"...seeing the Kollwitz and Baskin prints up so close.... they are two of my 
favorite printmakers."

Kathe Kollwitz is one of my favorites too. Her work engulfs you until it 
touches your soul. Talk about personal grief and suffering in Art! I 
remember "discovering" her prints a few years back and just been 
completely overwhelmed by her ability to express the horrors of war and 
the human suffering. There was a short documentary made in Germany around 
1968 on her life & work. The narration comes straight from her own 
words/diary, I highly recommend it to anyone who has access to it. 
http://www.roland-collection.com/rolandcollection/section/14/508.htm


Anyone who has seen her print (or sculpture) "Seedcorn must not be 
destroyed" (a circle of  mothers with their arms linked around their 
children) can not help but to sense the greatness of this artist.


It is surprisingly how her work and that of fellow german printmaker Fritz 
Eichenberg (another favorite) are different. While they both can be 
considered life-long pacifists and both spent a lifetime making prints 
that confront the tragedy of war....Eichenberg having left Germany for the 
US before the war had the freedom to denounce Hitler and the Nazi's in a 
very direct and graphic manner. Kollwitz prints in the other hand while 
more personal in showing the human suffering... have a certain "timeless" 
quality to them...they can apply to any war, to any country, to any 
suffering people. They are just as relevant today as they were eighty 
years ago.

"Kollwitz's art shows us one who responded to her country's choice with 
anguished protest, as if each print might finally be the one to bring 
Germany back to her senses."
this excerpt taken from this website 
http://spaightwoodgalleries.com/Pages/Kollwitz_self_portraits.html

thanks...Julio Rodriguez

------------------------------

From: Chelsea391#aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:19:42 EST
Subject: [Baren 21132] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2170 

In a message dated 3/25/03 8:00:50 AM, owner-baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp writes:

<< It would seem to me that with a theme as broad based as" war and peace" 
just about any image would be relevant.  Some might choose to do the horrors 
of war "ala 
Goya", others might choose do to a peaceful meadow landscape - perhaps 
what a perfect and peaceful world might look to them.  I see plenty of 
latitude in the theme "war and peace", which may be a political 
expression to some, and not to others.  At any rate, there is no need 
to get ones feathers fluffed.

Stubbornly voting for War and Peace,
Sharri >>

I'm stubbornly agreeing with Sharri. 
I doubt that many of us could keep our intense feelings out of our work, 
whatever the stated subject, and I woudn't want to be in an exchange that was 
set up to screen that out. We don't want to argue with each other, but using 
the exchange of images to let our personal perspectives show forth is a form 
of respect. What a model of community THAT would be. 

The Vietnam Veteran's Artists Group is one example of this, very different 
than ours would be: a collection of art by men (and some women) who were in 
Vietnam. There are a few pieces by Vietnamese artists also. The collection is 
housed in Chicago and Abrams published a terrific book (I have a credit in it 
for helping the author, Eve Sinaiko). There's no uniting ideology.

This discussion is really interesting. I look forward to more postings as we 
think this through.

Janet in Jersey City

Janet Kravetz Hollander 

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V22 #2171
*****************************