Baren Digest             Thursday, 19 December 2002     Volume 21 : Number 2064


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From: "Cynthia S. Bendix" <contact-print#juno.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:47:19 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20143] Re: unmounted goats and the environment 

Hi everyone!
As a framer, I'm constantly balancing between wanting a print or other
art work on paper to 
stay put and/or be reversible. I've had to educate irate clients "what do
you mean the hinge is supposed  to let go if I drop the whole frame
package!", about the reasons that hinging is one of the best methods for
mounting artwork. However my favorite hinging method (not useful if you
are floating the print to show the deckle edges) is the use of clear
mylar corners (the larger version as compared to the tiny ones available
in the scrapbook supply section of your local art or craft store) . The
art work is held securely  and if it's especially heavy paper or wavy
paper, I also add clear archival mounting strips, especially along the
bottom where the weight gathers. It's completely reversible and easy to
accomplish. My artist clients appreciate being able to slip their artwork
out of the corners if necessary.

Unfortunately none of these methods if useful for mounting a print to a
mailer (as in the "old goat" print you all have been writing about :( 
There is a reversible dry mount tissue made by the Seal company that is
stated to be archival and is attached in a dry mount heat press or heated
vacuum press, but my experience is that it is difficult to work with.  
Hmmm, that's not very helpful is it? Dang!
Thea

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From: Sharri LaPierre <Barebonesart#attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:15:26 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20144] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2063 

My heart did a seize attack when I read that John's Old Goat was a
reduction print. Sob, I would never get one. But, there is sunshine in
the world somewhere (not in the Northwest today), and yes, Virginia,
there is a Santa Center.  John, your second edition will still probably
arrive ahead of my print. And we will all be your Grateful Fans.

After years of hinging with linen tape I have discovered these little
self-adhesive mylar dudes that you mount to hold prints where you want
them. Not appropriate for mailing Old Goats, but great for framing. 
They come in 4 in. lengths, but I cut one in l in. segments and put one
on each side of the print leaving a little room for expansion and
contraction.  They are WONDERFUL - never let go whatever the weather and
if you want to remove the print there is no tape to deal with.  I tried
the mylar corners and found that they would eventually give out from the
weight of the print.  I also made my own corners of scraps from
tear-downs; too time consuming.  Look in the framing supplies for
Mounting Strips, you'll love 'em.

For adhering work to surfaces you don't expect to ever remove it from,
Durotech makes a film adhesive which comes in sheets or rolls.  I use
the "R" which is archival. (800-827-1379).  I use this product for chine
colle when I've printed on Japanese paper and want to adhere it to
Western paper. User beware, though - use dry paper to dry paper only!
Unless of course, you enjoy wrinkled and warped work - it does have an
ephemeral quality.

Sharri




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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:43:15 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20145] Re: sheep & old goat update 


I suspect the problem with the lost goats has more to do with the beating 
our mail takes when going thru the handling and sorting machinery at the 
Post Office centers than with the type of glue used. 

A few more names added to the sheep list...sitting pretty at 50 with three 
more days left for signup. Those of us still owing horsies (and there are 
a few of us) ...have made a commitment to get them out before the new 
chinese year arrives....I think sometime in early February...right guys ?

http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/blacksheep/

thanks....Julio

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From: Wanda <robertson#canby.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:16:20 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20146] Re: missing old goat and venice sheep 

on 12/17/02 9:19 PM, Maria Diener (aka Arango) at maria#mariarango.com
wrote:


> Furry likes Vegas! I got my old goat today; John you are a beautiful
> beautiful man!
> ;-) M


Well, I had a really hard time opening my post office box with my fingers
crossed - but it didn't do any good - there was just a black card in there.
Darn!  Another one got away!  Maybe I should have taken my herding dog with
me. Phoooey.

Wanda


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From: GraphChem#aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:17:27 EST
Subject: [Baren 20147] Re: Clean Up Question 



Dan et al:
I'm not sure why the cleanup in becoming a problem, but soap and water should 
work. Once it's dry, you may want to try a small thermonuclear device. It is 
not, however an acrylic. It is a glycol based vehicle. I think Irene's method 
of cleanup sounds pretty accurate to me.

Sorry to take so long getting back to you, I've been on the road making sales 
calls for the past 10 days, and somewaht out of touch. There's an old line in 
a Mel Brook's movie that goes something like, "It's good to be king!". Well, 
that's sort of how it works here - I get to choose where the sales calls will 
take place, and I'm not picking cold weather places this time of year, so I 
got to hob and nob all at the same time with printmakers around the state of 
Hawaii.

Dean


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From: GraphChem#aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:18:58 EST
Subject: [Baren 20148] Re: sheep & goats 


I apologize, my brain was still on vacation. I gave credit to Irene for 
Louise's comments about the ink cleanup - sorry, Louise.

Dean


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From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:36:50 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20149] Re: old goat 

Since I was one of such a small minority to actually get copy of John's 
print, I scanned it and put it up on my web site for those whose copies got 
lost in the mail:

                 http://www.room535.org/misc/oldgoat.jpg

Myron

At 11:43 AM 18/12/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>I suspect the problem with the lost goats has more to do with the beating 
>our mail takes when going thru the handling and sorting machinery at the 
>Post Office centers than with the type of glue used.



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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:54:33 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20150] Re: Clean Up Question 

WARNING ... ALL WOOD BLOCK PURISTS SHOULD IMMEDIATELY COVER THEIR EYES, 
STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THEIR EARS, AND CHANT THEIR FAVORITE MANTRA ... THE 
FOLLOWING IS NOT ABOUT WOOD BLOCK PRINT MAKING.

O.K., Dean. Now I am worried. I want to use GC&I water based block printing 
ink as a non-toxic ground for etching, using copper sulfate and salt as the 
etching medium. Of course the ink has to dry on the plate before I use the 
needle to draw the design and put the plate in the etching bath. Once I 
have etched my plate, how do I remove the ink that I have used as a ground?

Cheers ....... Charles

P.S. By the way, did you ever come up with pigment numbers for your water 
based block printing inks?

At 05:17 PM 12/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Dan et al:
>I'm not sure why the cleanup in becoming a problem, but soap and water 
>should work. Once it's dry, you may want to try a small thermonuclear 
>device. It is not, however an acrylic. It is a glycol based vehicle. I 
>think Irene's method of cleanup sounds pretty accurate to me.
>
>Sorry to take so long getting back to you, I've been on the road making 
>sales calls for the past 10 days, and somewaht out of touch. There's an 
>old line in a Mel Brook's movie that goes something like, "It's good to be 
>king!". Well, that's sort of how it works here - I get to choose where the 
>sales calls will take place, and I'm not picking cold weather places this 
>time of year, so I got to hob and nob all at the same time with 
>printmakers around the state of Hawaii.
>
>Dean



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From: GraphChem#aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:30:47 EST
Subject: [Baren 20151] Re: Clean Up Question 


Ammonia and hot water will work reasonably well.

Dean


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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:36:32 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20152] non woodblock stuff 

Charles,
There is a great waterbased ground developed by Gerald (last name escapes
me) at the U of KY and I think you can find it on the printmaking site of
Nik Semenoff. Look here http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ I think it will work
better than the waterbased ink alone as it will not chip.
Best to you,
Barbara

From: "Charles Morgan" <cmorgan#uvic.ca>


> WARNING ... ALL WOOD BLOCK PURISTS SHOULD IMMEDIATELY COVER THEIR EYES,
> STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THEIR EARS, AND CHANT THEIR FAVORITE MANTRA ... THE
> FOLLOWING IS NOT ABOUT WOOD BLOCK PRINT MAKING.




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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001#hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:46:04 -1000
Subject: [Baren 20153] Re: non woodblock stuff 

I also understand that Golden Acrylics makes an acrylic etching ground,
though I haven't found a distributor for it yet. If it's as well made as
their paints, it might be just the thing you are looking for.

Jack Reisland


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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:01:01 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20154] old goat 

Thanks for showing us the old goat....what a great print!
sorry not to have one!
Barbara

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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:53:15 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20155] Re: non woodblock stuff 

Thanks Dean ... I was supposing that ammonia would do the trick, but then 
you made that quip about using a thermonuclear device, and you got me 
worried!!!

And thanks for the tip, Barbara. I have seen the formula and been in 
correspondence with Nik about it ... but I have not had a chance to try it yet.

Cheers to all ...... Charles

At 07:36 PM 12/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Charles,
>There is a great waterbased ground developed by Gerald (last name escapes
>me) at the U of KY and I think you can find it on the printmaking site of
>Nik Semenoff. Look here http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ I think it will work
>better than the waterbased ink alone as it will not chip.
>Best to you,
>Barbara
>
>From: "Charles Morgan" <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
>
>

> > WARNING ... ALL WOOD BLOCK PURISTS SHOULD IMMEDIATELY COVER THEIR EYES,
> > STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THEIR EARS, AND CHANT THEIR FAVORITE MANTRA ... THE
> > FOLLOWING IS NOT ABOUT WOOD BLOCK PRINT MAKING.



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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:54:05 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20156] Re: non woodblock stuff  

Thanks, Jack. If you get a line on it, I would really appreciate knowing 
where to get some.

Cheers ...... Charles

At 05:46 PM 12/18/02 -1000, you wrote:

>I also understand that Golden Acrylics makes an acrylic etching ground,
>though I haven't found a distributor for it yet. If it's as well made as
>their paints, it might be just the thing you are looking for.
>
>Jack Reisland



------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:55:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20157] Re: old goat 

Yeah ... it really looks great!!! I am so envious because mine did not 
arrive. Looking forward to the 2nd edition ...

Cheers ....... Charles

At 08:01 PM 12/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Thanks for showing us the old goat....what a great print!
>sorry not to have one!
>Barbara



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From: Dan Kitchen <xweave#yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:10:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 20158] MDF print and Ink question 

Hello everyone again,
  I thought I might contribute some non-goat related
news.  In my first post I mentioned that I was
experimenting with MDF for relief printing.  I have
gone through the whole process, and thought I might
share.  I found the material incredible easy to cut
and clear away.  It was a pleasure to work with at
first.  Fine sweeping lines were very simple to
acompliish.  The drawback to the material was that it
is so easy to slide a blade or chisel to that it is
very easy to under cut lines or clear away a line in
an instant.  Also large areas seem to almost tear out
instead of cutting if you are not careful.
  The proofs were strange. They seemed to be alright,
but the edges of some of the forms had a fuzzy edge. 
At first I thought maybe the fiber of the board was
holding ink, but after cleaning up the edges and
reprinting I had the same problem.  What it turns out
to be is I think the surface of MDF is so slick that
the ink almost squeezes to the edges.  Very similar to
an over inked monoprint under too much pressure.  I
think adjusting the amount of ink should take care of
this though.
  I recently got Rebecca Salter's book Japanese
Woodblock Printing from my library.  I have been
reading it with much interest.  Especially, the
section on inks.  I was wondering if watercolor
pigment in tube for can be substituted for the
powdered pigments used in moku hanga?  If they were
treated the same way and used the same paste additive
would they be acceptable?  Also, what does the glue
do?  I am assuming it is acting as sort of
medium/binding agent, I have seen that somewhere on
Baren that the glue is somewhat debated as to it's
true purpose.

Dan Kitchen


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From: "carolwagner" <carolwagner#softcom.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:27:21 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20159] Hooray for old Goats!  

John Center's Old Goat arrived in Sacramento in good shape, along with Ruth
Leafs charming trio of sheep. Have also received Myron Turners handsome,
bold, 'Sheep/Goat' card. My flock is growing and I feel so lucky to be part
of this exchange. Am hard at work on my offering, which is my very first
essay into pure Moku Hanga. Pray very hard  for me...I have just proofed my
block with Sumi, and cannot convey the feeling experienced  when lifting
that first fairly successful print . Especially since it would have been
much quicker and easier for me to knock off a lino cut or a collograph and
print using 'oily ink', but because I am apparently not a happy camper
unless facing a challenge, some perverse inner self is always goading me
into trying something that I know absolutely nothing about! And speaking of
printing in Sumi, I'm sure some of you must also have received the card Alex
sent out from McClain's...the one with Walt Padgett's wonderful "Crabapples
and More Snow"? I am in Love with Moku Hanga printed with Sumi. Back to
work,

(have cut, must now print)
Carol in Sacramento



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End of Baren Digest V21 #2064
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