Baren Digest            Wednesday, 18 December 2002    Volume 21 : Number 2063


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From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:21:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20124] Lost Goats  

John Center, I hate to admit that I too am missing an old goat.  I kept 
optimistic and thought to myself,  "oh this is just a thin envelope" and 
tried to open up the card when I frustratedly realized the goat was gone 
and the surface was sticky where the goat had probably been attached. 
 In my undemocratic attitude about the certain greed of humanity at 
large, I figured someone stole it because your work is so good!  So, it 
sounds like a lot of these just didn't stay on the card.  

Also, John Amoss and Dave, thanks for your reports on your 
collaboration.  I know more will come and I look forward to hearing from 
John on Baren After Five.

Also, Barbara,  Mike or someone.  How much of the hosho paper that Baren 
Mall has for sale, would be a safe amount to buy for the Exchange 15 
Hanga project coming up soon?  I'd better order now if the supplies 
might come slower than expected.    

Gayle
Ohio    




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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:26:54 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20125] John Center "old goat" 

Dear John,

I suppose that I must, too, am in distress.  I received a blank postcard 
from you, slightly sticky on one side, marked "old goat"...  Uh-Oh...


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

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From: "Gilda Zimmerling" <gemzeditionz#earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 7:12:13 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20126] missing goat 

Seems my mail person got an early Christmas present also. My old goat is missing too.

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From: Frank Trueba <ftrueba#cats.ucsc.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:55:14 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20127] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2061 

John,

I, unfortunately, must echo Sharri's comment.
As I picked up my mail and saw your return address on
the post card I got very excited, but as I turned it over I
became confused.  Then I realized, after feeling the glue
residue, that your print must have come apart in the mail.

I too, hope you've got more old goats in the corral, so you
can send one my way.

In any event, Happy Holidays!

frank
(Frank Trueba)




At 02:33 PM 12/16/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>John Center - I am a damsel in distress.  In today's mail I received a 
>postcard with "old goat" written on the front in your handwriting, but the 
>back was blank.  It looks like there may have been something glued to the 
>back that didn't quite complete the trip.  I am in a state of perpetual 
>gloom. I hope you have another goat you can send to alleviate my condition.
>
>Or is this a new movement I haven't heard of, yet and I'm the first to 
>collect the "transparent print"?
>
>Fortunately, my gloom was short lived and alleviated by a three lost sheep 
>who wandered up from Venice Beach. Ruth, they are wonderful. Thanks for 
>setting me right with the world, again.
>
>Sharri



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From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:01:03 EST
Subject: [Baren 20128] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2061 

i will do another old goat but he will be late            for sure this old 
goat has a red face.

meah culpa meah maxima culpa

john center

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From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying#Maineline.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 08:45:53 -0700
Subject: [Baren 20129] old goat 

hey John Center and others 
i was lucky  in that the front of the card AND the back of the card
(with the old goat on it) were both in my mailbox ,
 tho not still glued together,
they hung on til they landed in the box !
Ruth Leaf's three fluffy sheep were there also
thanks to you both from  Gillyin

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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:43:18 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20130] Yamaguchi paper 

Gayle,
 I have the Yamaguchi paper here in Oregon so the shipping is very fast, the
paper is about 16x20, but I will go and measure a piece today. We have about
300 sheets here in stock. I am also going to buy it for #15 as it prints the
best of any paper I have ever used for hanga. This will be one very
expensive exchange, but worth every penny. I am on the third block and so
far am pleased with it. I am thinking seriously of giving Multnomah Falls a
red bridge....I know it is really grey but it would look so good red. Isn't
this what they call artistic license????heheheheh If you order any of the
paper that Matsumura-san has for sale, it will ship from Japan so I would do
it fairly soon....expecially with the Christmas shipping going on here. It
will come air freight so that should not take more than 5-10 days once it
leaves Japan.
best to all,
Barbara


> Also, Barbara, How much of the hosho paper that Baren
> Mall has for sale, would be a safe amount to buy for the Exchange 15
> Hanga project coming up soon?  I'd better order now if the supplies
> might come slower than expected.
>
> Gayle
> Ohio
>
>
>




------------------------------

From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:17:38 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20131] Re: missing old goat and venice sheep charset="iso-8859-1" 

John

I think you need a sheep herder to keep those sheep in line, seems like they
all escaped.

Jeanne N.


------------------------------

From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:44:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20132] RE: unmounted goats and the environment 

John, I feel for you and can definitely relate. I don't think you were at
fault, the cold can be a huge problem with adhesives...adhering.

I have read and studied and read some more about adhesives and mounting
prints. The problem we face, as artists, is the incompatibility between
"permanence" (as in stick-and-stay-dangit) and the dictated "archival" (as
in reverse-without-damage) requirements of mounting prints and works on
paper.

Sure, if you are going to take a virgin print fresh off the
baren/spoon/press and mount it for "home" use and never expose it to the
ravages of environmental variables, the answer is easy: wheat paste. Easily
found, easily cooked or easier yet mixed from an instant powder, this magic
substance works well for all types of mounting, whether flat mounting to a
backing board or hinged with Japanese paper.
But what if prints go to festivals where the sun might shine relentlessly at
100 degrees F, or the humidity might climb to 70% (or worse, rain falls), or
the overnight lows slither down to a chilly 30 deg. F? Then your prints
suffer the same fate that John's goats and fall off, or partially fall off
their mounts. Pretty embarrassing to have someone be studying a print with
care and, just when the wallet peeks above the pocket line, the print takes
a dive inside its frame.
Makes an artist want to reach for that 3M 77 Spray Adhesive...

Surely a resourceful person like me can go to the internet or to the many
books that populate my living room and find a solution. Lacking that, surely
the myriad of internet groups dedicated to the arts of book binding,
printmaking, letterpress and others could provide the magic substance that
will stand all environmental ravages but still comply with the ten
commandments of printmaking and works on paper! Well, turns out the problem
is complicated and there is no perfect solution.

Here is what I found so far:
- - For mounting in controlled environments, where the prints will never see
the outdoors, the old wheat paste and Japanese paper hinging method is a
wonderful thing. Dan Smith now sells precoated Japanese hinging paper in a
roll, a delicate and perfect solution for most papers mounted on standard
museum backing boards.

- - If you add the variable of hand-made paper, thicker than standard
printmaking papers and very rough in surface, what I found the most reliable
is linen tape; either pre-gummed or peel-and-stick works well. The removal
of this stuff is tricky because the adhesive will stain some papers. I use
less water (distilled) and wait longer after applying the water with a q-tip
to the back of the tape. Linen tape remains as my favorite unless the paper
is very delicate, in which case I use the Japanese hinging tape or make my
own hinges with Japanese paper and wheat paste.

- - For very heavy or large works, still the linen tape hinges works best and
stay put. I also use the peel-and-stick stuff when I want to use a dry mount
method due to the delicacy or unknown shrinkage of the paper I'm trying to
mount.

- - For mounting heavy hand-made papers such as Mexican bark paper or other
irregularly surfaced papers to a flat board...you got me, man. I'm still
looking. I tend to reach for the acid free white cold emulsion adhesives
(the white stuff that dries transparent), but I have seen in some lists that
the reversibility success of such a mount is in question. I brush thinned
adhesive over the surface and dry under pressure, or I use a roll-on
applicator. The stuff is supposed to be reversible with heat. Wheat paste
fails miserably in the cold and heat, unless applied very thickly and then
it takes a lot of water to reverse, which may damage or stain some hand-made
papers. My main problem is that I like to float prints and use very heavy
papers with fiberous inclusions that look great but tend to be problematic
to mount due to their irregular surface.

- - I tend to stay away from the spray adhesives, mostly because they get
everywhere and I don't trust their reversability claims. "Yes" brand paste
has also been called into question as to its reversability and acid-free
properties.

I found that there are a lot of recommendations from a diversity of sources
out there. I tend to trust the more technical conservation sources, which
sometimes lose me in a sea of chemistry; also, they don't all agree on some
variables. If anyone has additional suggestions for mounting and hinging
(geared toward the not-so-ideal environmental conditions), I would love to
add to my scant body of knowledge.

Maria

<||><||><||><||><||><||>
     Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||>



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From: LEAFRUTH#aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:45:54 EST
Subject: [Baren 20133] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2062 

I'm Pleased to say I did get the old goat.  I guess the Venice post office 
isn't as Bad as I thought.  Ruth

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:54:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20134] Re: Lost Goats  

If you are as (in)competent as I am, you will only need about 500 sheets 
........

Cheers ........ Charles

At 09:21 AM 12/17/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Also, Barbara,  Mike or someone.  How much of the hosho paper that Baren 
>Mall has for sale, would be a safe amount to buy for the Exchange 15 Hanga 
>project coming up soon?  I'd better order now if the supplies might come 
>slower than expected.



------------------------------

From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:15:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20135] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2062 

John, I got my old goat card and love it.  Also the 3 little sheep.  My post 
ladies thought the cards were terrific also.  I invested in some of those 
clear little plastic bags to mail my card in, the were $1.99 for a hundred 
and I can put in a piece of cardboard with it for strength, I used a thin 
paper.  I have a feeling mine will arrive some time next year, have the kids 
and the one my daughter now says she is going to marry coming, all staying 
here.  Cooking and cleaning seem to be the highlight now.
Marilynn


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From: "PHARE-CAMP,PATTI (HP-USA,ex1)" <patricia_phare-camp#hp.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:11:42 -0500
Subject: [Baren 20136] RE: Baren Digest V21 #2062 


"could not do a reduction print on the card as regestration 
would not have worked"  john

and here I thought perhaps the "ol' goat" had forged the stamp (he's so good
at wood engraving money) there-by getting the postal services goat...

someone got my goat, but that's not so unusual in grouchy middle aged women
like me...who turned up the heat--I say--whose been playing with the
thermostat!!!

Patti P-C

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From: Wanda <robertson#canby.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:18:43 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20137] Re: missing old goat and venice sheep 

on 12/17/02 8:17 AM, Jeanne N. Chase at studiojnc#prodigy.net wrote:


> John
> 
> I think you need a sheep herder to keep those sheep in line, seems like they
> all escaped.
> 
> Jeanne N.
> 
> 

Goats are a lot harder to keep confined. ;-)

And it was a reduction print? Oh golly - I'm keeping my fingers crossed as I
go to the post office today.

Wanda


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From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:30:44 EST
Subject: [Baren 20138] Re: missing old goat and venice sheep 

will clone out the old goat       old male goat 2

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From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:50:29 -0600
Subject: [Baren 20139] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2061 

John,

I am one of the fortunate few who did in fact get a copy of your old goat 
print.  Are our Canadian mail carriers more honest than yours or less 
appreciative a such good work?

Myron


At 10:01 AM 17/12/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>i will do another old goat but he will be late   for sure this old
>goat has a red face.
>
>meah culpa meah maxima culpa
>
>john center



------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:07:43 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20140] sheep and goats 

John, I am sorry to report that my goat is also among the missing.

Ruth, your sheep arrived in fine shape, and they are pleasant reminders of 
my sheep farming days.

Cheers to all ...... Charles

------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:08:32 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20141] old goats 
well, I guess it is unanamous, those old goats just got away....I had hoped
mine would make it, but no luck! However to make up for it I did get Ruth's
three fluffy sheep.....so that helped!
Best to all,
Barbara

------------------------------

From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:19:07 -0800
Subject: [Baren 20142] Re: missing old goat and venice sheep charset="US-ASCII" 

Furry likes Vegas! I got my old goat today; John you are a beautiful
beautiful man!
;-) M

<||><||><||><||><||><||>
     Maria Arango
  Las Vegas Nevada USA
  www.1000woodcuts.com
<||><||><||><||><||><||>


>will clone out the old goat       old male goat 2
>



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End of Baren Digest V21 #2063
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