Baren Digest             Wednesday, 23 October 2002     Volume 21 : Number 2003


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:30:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19628] Re: Help supplies need for moka hanga 

Dear Gilda,

[*] It's easier to use prepared watercolors than powder pigments (powder 
pigments can also be a serious health hazard -- wear a mask during grinding 
and clean up carefully) but are more expensive.  I have used Akua colors 
for traditional moku-hanga but don't like them -- there are others who 
swear by them, though.  Guerra Paint and Pigment in New York City sells 
liquid pigment dispersions which are easier and safer to use than powder 
pigments, and are at least as powerful as Windsor & Newton prepared water 
color and cheaper...  Mix with a little gum arabic when you are ready to 
print.

Guerra Paint & Pigment
510 East 13th Street
New York, NY 10009
USA
(212) 529-0628

But I think you'll have an easier time selecting colors and printing if you 
just use good quality locally available prepared water colors (in tubes) 
like Windsor & Newton.

[*] Four tools probably isn't enough for comfortable working...  I think 
you ought to have:
1) A decent baren -- I think that this one tool more than any other will 
allow you to print better.  The Baren Mall is probably your cheapest source 
for decent quality: http://www.barenforum.org/mall/products/barens.html

I've used all the Baren Mall Murasaki Baren -- they are the best baren I've 
ever owned (or made).  For $110 (price has gone up!) the 12cm Medium 
Murasaki Baren will give you the best all around service, I think.  The 
"Sosaku" baren from Baren Mall 'looks' like it would work well to me, and 
for $36 it may be a bargain, but I've never used one -- also the Yoshida 
baren designed by the famous printmaking family.

The "best" baren I've ever used was my teacher's hand-made 8-strand baren 
- -- about 13cm diameter.  About eight years ago, he said they were still 
available for about $800.  I never even considered buying one (but maybe I 
should have)!  It was a very beautiful tool.

Don't waste your $5 on one of those cheap student barens with the real 
bamboo sheath cover -- they are corrugated cardboard inside and don't print 
worth a darn (but the sheath can be removed and used to re-cover a decent 
baren in a pinch!  The Daniel Smith Baren for much more money is also a 
waste (it's a plastic and wood cylinder about 3" tall and 4" in diameter 
with a wood handle on top like a fancy cookie cutter and has a teflon-like 
cover over the bottom.  It's pretty much useless, I think.

Carving tools:

If you can afford good tools, you can buy excellent quality tools from 
Baren Mall http://www.barenforum.org/mall/products/knives.html and also 
from McClain's Printmaking Supply http://www.imcclains.com -- buy:
a 6mm toh
a 4mm or 6mm V-gouge
a 1mm OR a 2mm U-gouge
a 6mm U-gouge
a 12mm or larger shallow U-gouge for clearing.  The tools with thinner 
blades are quicker to sharpen and easier to push through the wood.
a 6mm or a 9mm bull nose chisel (which can be used to carve the 'seats' of 
the kento registration 'marks' and in finishing out clearing)

If you are on a "budget", then buy:

a razor knife (the infamous box cutter?) with break-away section 
blades.  Use it like a toh (skew knife).   Much cheaper than a toh, and 
much easier to keep sharp (snap off the dull part), but eventually you will 
have paid for a decent toh.
a set of knives -- the baren mall modern set for $17.50 is an excellent 
value http://www.barenforum.org/mall/products/sosaku_knives.html and you 
can usually find Japanese tools in inexpensive (~$20--$30) sets of six or 
seven tools at your local hardware store or at Woodcraft supply -- DO NOT 
buy the ones with the 'mushroom' shaped wood handles (like engraving tool 
handles) -- you are looking for the ones with amber-colored wood handles 
about 5" long and about 5/8" diameter with a profile turned into them -- 
the 1/2 length of the handle toward the tool end tapers gradually toward 
the tool while the other end is turned in a 1 1/2" curve so that it has a 
'narrow' waist.  The steel in these takes a good edge quickly and they'll 
give decent service for several years.
a 12mm or larger shallow U-gouge for clearing -- (c-2817 in McClain's 
catalog $18.55)

Wood:

Basswood -- usually available at your local lumber yard or hardwood 
specialist and doesn't cost too much.  Buy planks wider than your print in 
about 1" thickness and have it cut to size.  Very easy to carve -- grain 
not pronounced in the print.
Shina plywood -- available from McClains -- a 12x16 all-shina block costs 
$10.35 and each one is big enough to allow you to carve four blocks for 
exchange #15 (two on each side)... 
http://www.imcclains.com/2002pdf/woodpartone.pdf  A little harder to carve 
than bass wood, but still very easy -- a little bit more texture than above 
in printing, I think, due to the way the veneer is stressed as it's cut 
from the logs.
Luan plywood (door skin) from your local lumber dealer -- very cheap -- 
have them cut it to size and then glue it to another block for 
stability.  Has very pronounced parallel grain which gives a strong texture 
when printed.  Can be difficult to carve.  Avoid types with dark colored 
glue -- it's VERY hard.
Other plywoods (fir, and hardwood)...  experiment and see!

All the above ought to be sanded very smooth before carving -- start with 
100 grit and progress to 150, 220, 400 at least.  I use a big 5" electric 
Porter Cable random orbital sander, but you can do it by hand...  use a 
sanding block, sweat a lot, and don't be impatient.

That's what I think, anyway...

- -- Mike


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From: G Wohlken <blueman#pantek.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:16:12 +0000
Subject: [Baren 19629] tools 


>>and a v gouge which I use rarely on wood, but more on linoleum.


Wanda, when you use a v-gouge on linoleum, are you also printing hanga style
or  do you use oil basd inks with linoleum?  Curious.

Gayle
(Ohio)



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From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:35:51 EDT
Subject: [Baren 19630] Re: tools 

Tools hummmmm      I got some wood carving gouges when I was in Canada never 
thought I would use some of them but wonders never cease.  Got a set of 
gouges that were shaped like a round scourper (wood engraving tool) but 
larger would work on carving end grain wood but too big for wood engravings.  
Found they work very well on corain.  The largest gouge I got was one that 
was 3" across I guess it was used for carving tree trunks.  I unlike Japanese 
wood cutters rarely use a knife.  I guess it was because I came to wood cuts 
from wood engraving.    

Will enter the learning curve for the 15 exchange never printed water color 
before.

good to teach this old dog a few new tricks

john center

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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:53:46 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19631] Re: Help supplies need for moka hanga 

Oh, Gilda!

I forgot about sharpening -- you'll need a pair of wet-stones for 
sharpening -- buy any medium or medium-coarse stone for quick shaping and 
nick removal.  For completing the edge, I prefer Japanese natural stone -- 
not <too> fine (depends on the medium stone's fineness) -- and then I 
finish with a home made "strop" of a piece of suede stretched and tacked 
over a shaped hardwood (triangular cross section) and then generously 
rubbed with "yellowstone" -- a honing compound I like, but you can use 
jeweller's rouge or rottenstone or any honing compound you prefer.

Mike

Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:00:14 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19632] Re: tools 

At 10:16 AM 10/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Wanda, when you use a v-gouge on linoleum, are you also printing hanga style
>or  do you use oil basd inks with linoleum?  Curious.
>
>Gayle


Hi, Gayle...  Of couse, my name's not "Wanda", but I think that linoleum 
would be a terrible choice for hanga -- it's not absorbant at all, so you'd 
always have to use a lot of paste or other medium in addition to 
water...  Well, it'd be an tough and uphill battle, I imagine...

Mike
Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: Wanda <robertson#canby.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:52:04 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19633] Re: tools 

I use oil based inks with linoleum. Have never tried hanga with linoleum because
it is so water repellent & the backing (of the ones I use) is absorbent & swells
with moisture. I guess you can waterproof it somewhat by using varathane or
something - but I like the wood for hanga & lino (&wood & a press!) for the oily
stuff. For me, hanga is so "user friendly" - all you need is the wood, some
pigment, a baren & any flat surface. You could print anywhere.

Wanda



G Wohlken wrote:
 

> Wanda, when you use a v-gouge on linoleum, are you also printing hanga style
> or  do you use oil basd inks with linoleum?  Curious.


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:48:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19634] lino block  

Gayle,
Wanda and I are taking a lino block class with a well know Oregon artist
Dennis Cunningham. It is at Marylhurst University and halfway between our
houses, only about 20  miles for each of us. It is such fun to see each
other once a week all winter and we admit, we do carve lino...sort of like
cheating it is so easy to carve after wood and we do use oily inks....we are
very eclectic printmakers. Wanda is a much more dedicated hanga person than
I am, but now that I am teaching that moku hanga class, well, who knows? I
may become more "hanga oriented". I do like it, but I am very impatient! And
I am already pretty proficient in oil, so hanga is a challenge for me...but
as our fearless leader said (at least I think this is a sort of quote from
Dave) "If something is wonderful, does it matter if it takes a long time?"
best to all,
Barbara


> >>and a v gouge which I use rarely on wood, but more on linoleum.

> Wanda, when you use a v-gouge on linoleum, are you also printing hanga

style

> or  do you use oil basd inks with linoleum?  Curious.
> Gayle
> (Ohio)





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From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:12:37 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19635] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2002 

Gilda, I am a novice at Hanga myself having taken only one boot camp this 
June.  I bought a set of power grip tools at wood crafters in Portland, 
Oregon before I left.  When I showed them to Graham he said they were 
excellent.  Jan Telfer has a bit large set than mine and says she has never 
sharpened hers and loves them.  They are much much cheaper than the Japanese 
tools Graham had for sale and are every bit as good.  I think wood crafters 
is a chain so you might be able to locate these in your area.  Have fun 
learning hanga.
14a participants be patient.  There are 4 still out with prints yet to come 
to me.  Since this is a small exchange i would rather not drop them and hope 
they get their prints here as soon as possible. I have heard from each of 
them and they seem to be working hard at getting prints in for this 
exchange.
I need colophon information from:
Minna Sora
Sylvia Taylor
Also if Frank Trueba, Eli Griggs, Dan Dew and Horacio Neto will go to the 
baren site as soon as they can and do the colophon info for their soon to 
arrive prints it will speed things.
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_14/aexchangedetails.html
Thanks all and enjoy printing, it should be a pleasure not a panic.
best to all
Marilynn


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From: Daniel Dew <ddew#tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:44:43 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19636] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2002 

Oh, hey, my prints went out today!
I sent a pre-paid, pre-addressed return box also.

Sorry for the delay, me a bad boy.

d. dew


> From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>


> Subject: [Baren 19635] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2002
> 


> 14a participants be patient.  There are 4 still out with prints yet to come
> to me.  Since this is a small exchange i would rather not drop them and hope
> they get their prints here as soon as possible. I have heard from each of
> them and they seem to be working hard at getting prints in for this
> exchange.


> Marilynn

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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:36:06 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19637] Re:Help supplies need for moka hanga 10/22/2002 03:40:36 PM 

Re the above.....if you have the budget and think you are going to "stick"
with hanga for a while, the tools mentioned
by Mike, Barbara and others will get you started and do right by you.
Otherwise tools that you already have for your
regular carving could probably get you by #15 (perhaps not as easily!). Of
course there is no substitute for the right tools
for the right job. There is some subtle differences when carving for hanga.

The big difference is that in oil printing you usually roll a thin (stiff
?) layer of ink on top of your wood and this does not
fall into your waste spaces that you carved away.  Thus with oil ink and a
press you can get away with fine engravings and cuts that are nominally
shallow. Even razor blade scratches ala Mundie!

In hanga printing you are going to slop some watery pigment and paste on
your block and you are going to make
 a big 'mess' of your block with your brush getting color everywhere. Thus
the areas cut away have to be a certain depth to prevent smudges. You have
to work at a brisk pace so you can't really take the time to "paint" the
color unto each area needed because parts of the block will start to dry on
you. The depth of the cut needed then depends on the width of open space
between  areas in relief receiving the color.

http://barenforum.org/encyclopedia/entries/onepoint/018_03/018_03_frame.html

Sagging paper if it's toooo wet and "dipping" of the baren could also
create havoc over wide open areas. A steady and flat use of the baren is
needed. In hand printing once you lay you paper down you can't see the
areas to be printed so when printing small areas of the same color that are
far apart it helps to make a mental image or a drawing for xref.

It is not as difficult as it sounds to get started..is a lot of fun......to
do it really well it may take years...to master the technique perhaps a
whole lifetime......

thanks...Julio Rodriguez 4/5



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From: Cucamongie#aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:48:10 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19638] pigments 

Once again, Gilda, I have to encourage you to buy pigments ALREADY DISPERSED IN WATER.  
IT IS NOT GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH TO USE PIGMENTS IN POWDER FORM.  One place where you can 
order them is from Guerra, which is in NYC but they will mail them to you.  Their phone 
no is (212) 529-0628 (sorry, I don't know if they have a toll-free number.  They have 
SO many colors, any color you could possibly want, already dispersed in water.  These 
are not WATERY though, they are very concentrated and will last a very long time.  Sorry 
to say this, as Guerra is a business not connected to the Baren Mall as is whereever 
the powder pigments come from, but I hope everyone on this forum will be around to make 
prints for many years to come.

April Vollmer, who, as you all know, makes gorgeous prints and achieves very bright 
wonderful colors, uses these pigments, if you want to see an example.
happy printing!
Sarah

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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:16:11 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19639] Re: Press for Sale 10/22/2002 06:20:47 PM 

I normally don't bother with these but since I know there are lot of
bareners in this neck of the woods (Portland), here is
a "little" proof press for sale..somewhat cheap!  Somewhat similar in operation to my Vandercook.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1779356482


The BarenMall carries a range of products specifically related to moku hanga printmaking. 
Other suppliers like Graphic Chemical, McClain's and others can be found in the encyclopedia at:

http://barenforum.org/encyclopedia/entries/007_04/007_04_frame.html

thanks...Julio Rodriguez





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From: "Joseph Sheridan" <sheridanpsm#msn.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:33:01 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19640] Re: Help supplies need for moka hanga 


A source for chisels, planes, stones and carving tools. The Japan Woodworker 
-  www.japanwoodworker.com  They also have a store in Alameda CA and 
the phone is  1 800 537-7820 . 

In their catalogue they feature the Michi woodcarver's tools (great for shina ply), 
the "Power Grip" and the "FlexCut" lines. Also featured are "Professional Woodcarving tools"  
These are high quality tools  (skews, gouges, V-parting and bull noses), which are made in Japan. 
They have a great feel in the hand. I find the rounded oak handle to be quite comfortable
 to work.  I found their skews too large for line carving BUT the BULL nose chisels 
 (running from $37 to $45 ) are WONDERFUL to clear the cherry I am currenty working with.  

I also vote for the water suspended concentrated pigments. 

Joe Sheridan



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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:25:47 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19641] Re: lino block 

 I thought it was "if you enjoy something, isn't it better if it takes longer?"

At 09:48 AM 10/22/2002 -0700, Barbara Mason wrote:

>"If something is wonderful, does it matter if it takes a long time?"


Mike
Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:46:05 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19642] lino block 

Well, I knew it was something like that....
Barbara


> I thought it was "if you enjoy something, isn't it better if it takes

longer?"

>
> At 09:48 AM 10/22/2002 -0700, Barbara Mason wrote:

> >"If something is wonderful, does it matter if it takes a long time?"

> Mike





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From: Cyndy Wilson <crwilson#icehouse.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:27:40 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19643] Re: : tools 

on 10/19/02 6:15 PM, Lee and Barbara Mason at lbmason71#attbi.com wrote:


> I took in exchange 14 for the class to see, they were very impressed. What
> always strikes me is the wonderful divesity of the work, beginners,
> experienced, and in between and the range of ideas is just great. Forget the
> tools, just get prints, lots of prints!
> Barbara
> -----
> 

I took the exchange 14 in for my classes to see and they loved them.  Mike,
they just went nuts over your print!

Cyndy


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End of Baren Digest V21 #2003
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