Baren Digest             Saturday, 19 October 2002     Volume 21 : Number 1999


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:26:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19597] Re:   Baren Digest V21 #1997 

At 08:52 PM 10/17/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>If you have three people in an ordinary Japanese print or a pillow print,
>who is the third person?  Is it the chaperone?  The procurer?  The pimp?
>The person who takes the man out when the time he paid for is up?  The
>person who supplies the drugs?  Who is the third person?  I always thought
>that was very bizarre because I certainly would not even think of bringing
>my girlfriend along on a date, because she would almost certainly steal my
>man if she could.  Double dating was acceptable, but that was so many years
>ago, I can hardly rememer it.
><snip>
>Sorry this is off subject, but it needs to be communicated to someone.  I'll
>have to think about how I can put it into a print.
>
>Jean


Dear Jean,

Harunobu and others (Koryusai!) created images for a series of pillow books 
(shunga) to illustrate the adventures of Maneemon.  Maneemon was a "normal" 
guy, but one day the teahouse beauties, Osen and Ofuji, gave him a magical 
potion which enabled him to shrink.  So the miniature Maneemon would sneak 
into the brothels and watch what was going on (humorously described and 
pictured in the shunga)...

Sometimes the third person is the husband, cuckholded as he sleeps. 
Sometimes it's that girlfriend of yours, hired to double the pleasure & even 
compete for the guy's attention.  Sometimes it's another person spying 
or walking in on or interrupting the lovers.

You know... just your run of the mill typical male fantasies in picture 
books...

- -- Mike

PS -- those lengthy 'off topic' parts do not belong here and should <ONLY> 
be sent to Baren-After-5 at baren-after5#ml.asahi-net.or.jp  ... OK?




Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19598] Re: show of Japanese wood block prints 

Mike, and other interested parties,

At 01:16 PM 10/17/02 -0500, you wrote:


>I sincerely doubt that those hairs were printed using more than a single 
>block...  Of course, I can't see the print as you did, but often hair was 
>printed using several blocks to under print gray and black tones which 
>were finally overprinted with the keyblock containing those finely printed 
>lines!  Traditional Japanese technique <will> allow faithful reproduction 
>of <very> tiny marks, and (although they did tend to fill with hardened 
>pigment over time, and fine lines do eventually break down, there were a 
>LOT of prints pulled with very fine impressions) I bet you were just 
>admiring the pedestrian skill of people who did this work all day every 
>day for most of their lives.  Pretty amazing level was achieved, eh?


You may well be right, for all I know ... but those hairs were incredibly 
fine and VERY close together. It is all speculation on my part about how a 
more fumble fingered carver and printer might achieve it !!!


>I've heard that 'sex education manual' explanation many times, but I just 
>don't buy it!  Courtesans and prostitutes were more expensive than books 
>of shunga (just as today, I imagine).  I think that the shunga you saw 
>most likely played a very similar role (and at a similar relative cost) as 
>today's "men's magazines" -- Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, and a thousand 
>others.  And I think men used them in a similar way, too.  As far as 
>eroticism goes, I have some pretty damned erotic shunga (well, erotic to 
>me, at least) and homosexual erotica was very common as well -- I have a 
>terrific print depicting an older monk with a very young boy -- totally 
>inappropriate in today's puritan western climate, I think... but oh, so 
>very beautiful a print!


Again, you may well be right about the parallel between Playboy and shunga 
... I was simply quoting the lecture about the use of the books.

As for the erotic quality, I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. In 
our culture, we are constantly inundated with very realistic depictions of 
sex ... photos on the covers of men's and women's magazines, not to mention 
the material inside many of them ... and sex and full nudity in movies is 
very common now. Given our desensitization, a wood block print just does 
not seem to have the zing it might have had 100 or 200 years ago. To my 
eye, they seemed more humorous than erotic. In fact one of the prints was 
Cats In A Bath House, and it depicted cats dressed in kimonos, etc. So 
surely some of it was intended to be humorous and not erotic.

My comments about the heterosexual character of the prints refers just to 
the collection on display at the Art Gallery here. I have no idea about 
themes depicted in other collections.



>Because it was more or less produced and traded "underneath" official 
>censorship and regulation, lots of shunga was printed using the MOST 
>fabulous and flashy techniques -- lots of metallics, mica, embossing, RICH 
>color -- incredible prints!  Did you notice that in the 
>exhibition?  Shunga was frequently produced with the same sort of "deluxe" 
>printing technique as surimono -- really incredible!


Actually, the local shunga collection seemed to me to be not of the same 
quality as the other prints on display. They were competently done, better 
than I could do ... but there was not the richness of many of the other prints.

Cheers ..... Charles

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:01:20 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19599] Re: Baren Digest V21 #1995 

Marilynn,

I was sure I did one on line. Check, and if it is not there, I will do it 
again. I may well have screwed it up some how.

Cheers ..... Charles

At 01:49 PM 10/17/02 -0700, you wrote:

>I have recieved prints from the following 14a participants, but not their 
>colophon information.
>Sharen Linder
>Charles Morgan
>Julio Rodriquez
>Minna Sora
>Barbara Patera
>Sylvia Taylor
>Jean Eger Womack
>Please visit the baren site and submit your info:
>http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_14/aexchangedetails.html
>As you have read I would like to get this in the mail early in November 
>because of other obligations.
>These are wonderful prints everyone so get your stuff to me so you can get 
>yours back in the mail.
>Marilynn Smith in beautiful Nahcotta Washington
>



------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:11:39 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19600] Re:   Baren Digest V21 #1997 

Some of the prints show groups of men in a salon with groups of women, 
which I take to be typical of the entry areas of the bordellos of the time. 
Some of the prints show a couple having sex and being observed by others. 
In one very humorous print, the "voyeur" is an obviously older man using a 
telescope from outside the building to observe a younger couple. Some of 
the prints illustrate group sex. There was no portrayal of drugs or drug 
paraphernalia that I recall.

Cheers ... Charles

At 08:52 PM 10/17/02 -0700, you wrote:

>If you have three people in an ordinary Japanese print or a pillow print,
>who is the third person?  Is it the chaperone?  The procurer?  The pimp?
>The person who takes the man out when the time he paid for is up?  The
>person who supplies the drugs?  Who is the third person?



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:20:03 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19601] Re: Baren Digest V21 #1995 

Yes, Charles -- I see where you posted it...  I'll forward it to Marilynn 
and check to see if I have copies of any others at the same time.

Thanks for mentioning this!

Mike

At 10:01 AM 10/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Marilynn,
>I was sure I did one on line. Check, and if it is not there, I will do it 
>again. I may well have screwed it up some how.
>Cheers ..... Charles
>At 01:49 PM 10/17/02 -0700, you wrote:

>>I have recieved prints from the following 14a participants, but not their 
>>colophon information.
>>Sharen Linder
>>Charles Morgan
>>Julio Rodriquez
>>Minna Sora
>>Barbara Patera
>>Sylvia Taylor
>>Jean Eger Womack
>>Please visit the baren site and submit your info:
>>http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_14/aexchangedetails.html


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: "jarvis" <jarvis#cna.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 03:04:11 +0900
Subject: [Baren 19602] chop seal inkan hanko 

All this talk about 'chops' and  making them 
out of everything from old bolts to obscure plastics....
Actually, making the real thing should be a little 
closer to home.

Here in Japan where a 'chop' or 'hanko' as they are 
mostly called here are a part of daily life and serve 
the same purpose as a signature does in daily contracts 
and transactions, the real workhorses among them are
actually end-grain wood engravings. Most of the 'chop's
which function as the official signature of corporations, 
schools, and organizations are carved from end-grain
'tsuge' which is the same as the 'boxwood' which is the 
high-end material for wood engravers. 
The real name of all these 'chop's is 'inshou' which
includes the  everyday 'hanko' as well as the seals 
used by artists and literati to 'sign' their work.

The standard low-end material is boxwood. I have seen 
some of these used for numerous impressions daily for 
over twenty years with no apparent ill effect.

If you go to one of the shops where they make these things
you will be offered:
boxwood(tsuge)- rich brown - low-end
SE Asian water-buffalo horn -black
' Holland' water-buffalo horn - like tortoise-shell
Chinese sheep-horn- semitransparent cream
Ivory - high-end
(traditionally the best ones were ivory but restrictions 
on ivory trade show their influence here,  the ivory
now used has seals from a government agency to
guarantee that it is not from poached or smuggled 
sources. Recently there also has been a bit of 
Siberian Mammoth ivory around it seems)
also some non-traditional materials such as
Titanium - metallic-grey
Dyed Horn - Bright candy-colors for the young
girls.

The 'chop' is placed up-side down (printing-face up)
in a kind of simple vice using wooden wedges which
is about 4in x 4in x 6in so you don't have to worry
about how to hold it. Then it is gone after with tools 
much the same as the rest of us are using to carve
our blocks. (Though there are also now also
programmable mini-routers that will carve a perfect
copy of your camera ready 'art')

The soapstone seals that you can get in Chinatown
are even easier to carve. Though considered a branch 
of the same art, these are usually referred to as
'Tenkoku'. they are carved usually in the same vise
but usually with a special tool that is a 1/4in wide
square-ended chisel. One usually gouges the stone 
with a corner of this tool and the resulting rusticity
is considered desirable. Many artists and calligraphers
here carve their own, and blank unengraved seals are
available at every art supply shop. I've seen these artist-
made seals made from cherry, knots from red pine, and 
even bamboo.

Sharen suggested Aiko's in Chicago as a source for
blank seals. I haven't been there for about 25 years
but I'd guess they might have the other tools as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these 'chops'
are in fact simply mini-relief blocks, and not something 
this group should find at all intimidating. 

G.Jarvis



------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19603] teaching Hanga 

Well friends, I survived my first ever experience teaching Hanga...I am a
comparative novice, but the word is comparative. I know lots more than the
beginners and it was a good class. I had 12 women, some which are not so
sure they want to go forward after seeing the demonstration. Others were so
excited. I printed a small block and it turned out perfectly, almost. So I
was not horribly embarassed. I have encouraged the ladies to do simple
imagery so that they can get the feel for caving. I think they will all stay
for the first series of classes. One woman speaks Japanese but does not read
it...too bad! I have some great magazines (almost like soft cover books)
with hundreds of prints in them and I would love to know what they say. I
think they cost about $20, so they really are more like books and each has
several "prints" that could be removed and mounted. They are offset
reproductons, of course. Too bad.

Alex Prentice from McClain's came and brought lots of merchandise for them
to look over and purchase. Plus her new catalog. So all in all it was a
positive experience for the students and myself. I am a good printmaking
teacher and eventually I may be a good moku hanga teacher! It could happen,
quit laughing Wanda....and I will encourge them to buy from the baren mall
in the future as well as McClains.  I just couldn't resist the offer of all
that hanga stuff showing up in the middle of the class....it was so
impressive. I admit I spent a little money myself...what can I say, I am a
weak person where tools and books are concerned. She has a new one written
in Japanese with a translation for the parts where actual printing is being
done. I haven't looked it over yet, but will report on it in a few days.

I plan to do #15 in the class, so I will kill two birds with one stone, or
in this case, one block. We are going to print the same image on about a
dozen papers to see the difference, this should be interesting. I plan to
keep good notes. That 5x15" size will be good for this as it will be easy to
see them side by side.

Best to all,
Barbara



------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson#canby.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:09:01 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19604] Re: teaching Hanga 

Well, I'm not laughing - I know that you will make a good moku-hanga teacher. You
certainly have plenty of experience teaching other types of print-making. And you
know how to do it. You taught me to cut mats & frame stuff, so that was a great
money & time-saving thing for me. 

You bought more tools? Folks, you should see this woman's carving tools. :-)
Sorry, Barbara, couldn't resist.

Off to feed my animals & carve on my woodblocks. I *love* carving wood!

Wanda

Lee and Barbara Mason wrote:
<snip>

> positive experience for the students and myself. I am a good printmaking
> teacher and eventually I may be a good moku hanga teacher! It could happen,
> quit laughing Wanda....and I will encourge them to buy from the baren mall


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:07:17 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19605] tools 


> You bought more tools? Folks, you should see this woman's carving tools.

:-)
Wanda

Wanda,
I don't think mine hold a candle to Maria's.....She had tools that have
tools. Actually I did not get any carving tools, I got a piece of leather
and some honing rouge...of course this is assuming I keep those tools
sharpened so I can use it.

I do admit to having a lot of stuff...what can I say, it's my nature. I am
thinking of renting storage and putting eveything we haven't used in a year
there...if another year goes by, I will just call the good will people to
clear it out. Seems like it would work...no art supplies though, I only want
to put Lee's stuff in storage.

Remember that chunk of white stuff that came in that sharpening stone set?
It is chalk to use on top of the stone to make a slurry....surprise! If we
could read Japanese we would have known this.
best to all,
Barbara



------------------------------

From: baren_member#barenforum.org (Jean Eger Womack)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 08:07:19 -0000
Subject: [Baren 19607] Meeting Maria in San Francisco 

  I went to the Art and Food show in San Francisco today and met 
Maria Arango. She is REAL!  I hope she has a lot of success with 
her print show.  There were a lot of good art works at this show, 
which costs $8.50 to enter.  I bought one of Maria's landscape 
engravings on Corian.

Jean Eger Womack


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End of Baren Digest V21 #1999
*****************************