Baren Digest            Wednesday, 25 September 2002    Volume 20 : Number 1971


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From: Louise Cass <lcass#primus.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:00:16 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19317] Re: variable humidity 

I agree with John and in any case it isn't at all likely there will be a
problem with
such small size blocks - plywood could be more of a problem since it's layered
louise cass

At 01:06 AM 9/24/02 EDT, you wrote:

>how small will the pieces be?   if small not a problem   and besides the 
>blocks will be back were they came from.    humidity causes wood to expand 
>but as they will be back home they will be back to normal.
>
>john
>
>

http://www.LCassArt.com

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From: "lmhtwb" <lmhtwb#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:53:32 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19318] Re: variable humidity 

Hey Marie,


> WANTED: HUMIDITY EXPERTS!


I think I qualify for this one!!!  Afterall, I dragged several thousand
pounds of wood from Iowa to California.  Hehehe.


> Anyhow, my previous post was received by a knowledgeable and trusted

source

> who immediately warned me about warping. These blocks will travel to

places

> of various humidities, then travel back to my single humidity environment.
> Having been split from their original stable whole, is it fair to assume
> that warping will be a big problem?


NO.  (You never did take shop in high school, did you Marie?!)  The whole is
NOT more stable than a glued up panel.  A section of cherry tree trunk is
99% guaranteed to split, check, and other nasties.  Most hardwood will split
when dried in chunks. The moisture in the wood cannot escape evenly enough
to prevent cracking, especially is the wood contains the center pith, which
is why sculptors make flitches out of tree trunks.

Planks are cut green from logs and then, almost always, kiln dried.  The
kiln drying basically cooks out the water in the wood.  When dried, the wood
is basically stable.  Yes, boards still warp and crack but thats because (a)
the drying prossess was not thorough, (b) the board was unevenly exposed to
moisture (such as in painting) or sunshine, or (c) there was a flaw in the
wood, such as a knot-hole.  Most kiln-drying operations rush the wood thru
the process and remove the wood when most of the wood is dry enough.  When a
board cracks, it is because the moisture levels across a board is not even
and the internal stresses excede the tensile strength of the wood, so it
cracks.  The way I understand it is that the intensity of the stresses is
related to the ratio of endgrain area and volume of wood.

As for glued up boards, they are very stable because each part is fairly
small.  They may bow but rarely do they check or crack, but the bowing is
almost always do to uneven exposure to moisture or sunshine and tends to be
self-correcting.  I regularly have glued boards shipped to me from Ohio and
Oregon and they are fine.

As for changes in humidity, if the wood is dry in your studio, shipping it
to a humid area will cause it to expand, but wood almost never cracks when
humidity increases.  And with 3/4 inch boards, it shouldn't warp.  When the
wood is shipped back to you, you may have to let it sit for a week or so to
let the moisture level in the wood stabilize.  The best method for this is
to put the wood in plastic bags and forget about it.  The plastic holds in
moisture enough so there is no sudden shock with regards to humidity, but
also allows moisture to escape and thus the wood dries slowly.  I have done
this with upto 14x14x24 inch chunks of walnut and chestnut shipped from
Oregon and have never lost any wood.  Personally, this would be overkill in
my book since you are dealing with tiny bits of wood.


> Would plywood be a more stable matrix?


Plywood is more stable because the thin ply's are dried and then glued up.
They are glued at 90 degree angles to each other which further adds to the
stability.  Namely, as layer 2 moves left-to-right, layer 3 tries to move
up-and-down, so neither layer moves much.  The main fault with plywood is
the layers splitting along the glue layer and then seperating.  This is
usually caused by excessive moisture, not humidity, except maybe in Florida.

Now should you use cherry or plywood for this project?  That's totally up to
you.  Both would work just fine.

Linda


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:07:31 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19319] Re: playing with wood 

Hey, Maria!  Don't forget to sand those puppies flat and smooth before 
cutting them up and sending them off!  They come from the mill looking real 
clean, but are always covered with those nasty little chatter marks from 
the rotating thickness planer blades they use to surface the boards...  I 
use heavy duty electric right-angle random-orbital sanders and start with 
80 grit which I use with the most attention and care (careful to sand the 
boards completely flat).  Then I step through 120, 150, 220, 400, and 
finish up with worn-out 400 or better 'til the surface shines as if waxed.

Mike

At 05:20 PM 9/23/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>The other woody issue is the wood for the puzzle. I am now in possession of
>two gorgeous solid cherry blocks (joined panels 18 x 24 inches/45.72 x 60.96
>cm). Ladies and gentlemen, sharpen your tools! For those who have never cut
>cherry before, it might seem at first a bit tougher than shina or birch. But
>when you realize that there is no splintering and no crumbling and your cuts
>can get as sinuous and sexy as you wish...oh my...
>Anyhow, I thought the project was deserving of solid cherry wood.


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:50:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19320] Re: variable humidity 

I don't believe that warping of these small 3/4" pieces of cherry is going 
to be a problem at all.

Mike

At 08:12 PM 9/23/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>These blocks will travel to places
>of various humidities, then travel back to my single humidity environment.
>Having been split from their original stable whole, is it fair to assume
>that warping will be a big problem?


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:02:06 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19321] RE: wood 

Thanks for all the info everyone on the wood warp issue. I will ignore my
good friend's advice and go with the cherry. This project deserves the best.
Everyone that warned me can reserve the right to say: "I told you so, you
thick-headed Spaniard!"

LindE, my friend, your info was great, but my name is MariA. BTW During high
school shop class I was trying to learn English and at the same time teach
everyone how to say my real name, Hortensia. I failed miserably, got tired
of jokes and finally resorted to using my first name, MariA (every gal in
Spain is named MariA-something, but we never use the Maria). Anyhow, please
don't change my name again.

The adventure begins...
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria#mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:38:05 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19322] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 

I am finding joy in coordinating 14a and also learning.  I am learning about 
packaging and how things arrive in the mail.  I am learning how to open 
packages with yards of tape and not damage these wonderful prints.  I am 
learning that, yes, many lovely Baren folks send more postage than needed. 
And as for me, I have no grand concerns, just a husband who says I should 
not be out anything.  And of course our rules to follow.  If the rules are 
for one they are for all, no one is excluded, no one is picked on, they are 
there to help me make this a wonderful thing for me and everyone else.  My 
postal ladies in the tiny Nahcotta post office are wonderful about saving 
the packages for me and are overjoyed with seeing the art work.  Every 
package I get is like opening a new present.  I think everyone should 
consider coordinating, it is really fabulous and yes I am sure at times 
trying.
Love you all.
Marilynn



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:53:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19323] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 

Great to hear you are enjoying this experience, Marilynn!  Thanks so much 
for taking it on -- you're doing a terrific job!  Can hardly wait for the 
prints!!

ALSO...  The ALL-HANGA Exchange #15 opens for sign-up in ONE WEEK (October 
1) !!  If you think you'd enjoy coordinating that one, be sure to select 
the "CHOOSE ME! CHOOSE ME!" coordinator button when you sign up!

- -- Mike

At 11:38 AM 9/24/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>I am finding joy in coordinating 14a and also learning.  I am learning 
>about packaging and how things arrive in the mail.  I am learning how to 
>open packages with yards of tape and not damage these wonderful prints.  I 
>am learning that, yes, many lovely Baren folks send more postage than 
>needed. And as for me, I have no grand concerns, just a husband who says I 
>should not be out anything.  And of course our rules to follow.  If the 
>rules are for one they are for all, no one is excluded, no one is picked 
>on, they are there to help me make this a wonderful thing for me and 
>everyone else.  My postal ladies in the tiny Nahcotta post office are 
>wonderful about saving the packages for me and are overjoyed with seeing 
>the art work.  Every package I get is like opening a new present.  I think 
>everyone should consider coordinating, it is really fabulous and yes I am 
>sure at times trying.
>Love you all.
>Marilynn


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: "Colleen Corradi" <colleen#tin.it>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:59:31 +0200
Subject: [Baren 19324] help with ink on bookpages 

There is a solution to prepare in order to remove stains from paper,
including ink.

For all the inks used in writing one can use oxalic acid (or citric acid)
diluted with water to the point of saturation. When the ink mark turns red
it must be washed with a highly diluted solution of lime chlorate (30 to 40
g in one liter of water).
If the ink marks are spots or lines they can be removed with a fine brush
dipped in the above mentioned solutions or by using pure lime chlorate. When
the spot or line turns red it must be thoroughly washed with clean water.

http://www.monoprints.com/prints/restoring.html

Colleen Corradi
Italy


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From: "lmhtwb" <lmhtwb#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:00:57 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19325] Re: wood 


> LindE, my friend, your info was great, but my name is MariA. BTW During

high

> school shop class I was trying to learn English and at the same time teach
> everyone how to say my real name, Hortensia. I failed miserably, got tired
> of jokes and finally resorted to using my first name, MariA (every gal in
> Spain is named MariA-something, but we never use the Maria). Anyhow,

please

> don't change my name again.


How about, "Yo! Woman"???  Hahaha.  Sorry about changing your name, but my
spell checker doesn't do proper names.  (There, I'm off the hook.)

Actually, you probably didn't miss all that much in shop.  Most of the wood
knowledge I have comes from books (stop laughing -- I can read even if I
can't type sometimes), from teaching forestry at a university, or from
experience with wood sculpting.  The 3 years of high school shop did teach
me some interesting things, but none them had to do with wood.

Adios,
LindE, LindA, or Hey, you!


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From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:57:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19326] Re: wood & stuff..... 09/24/2002 04:00:58 PM 

One more for the road Maria.....

Hortensia........  pronounced:  ore-ten-see-ah  or   ore-ten-cya  (cyan w/o
the n)

How is that ?

Maria is right; every female in the Spanish world IS named Maria {;-).
Just a coincidence but my own Maria (Teresa) left Cuba as a child, traveled
to Spain and then to the USA much like the
MariA in Vegas. They also were born the same year.  My MariA  uses wood in
a different way...usually only to hit me over the head when I misbehave...

Julio




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From: "Maria Arango" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:07:11 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19327] last few addies 

Puzzle Project related

The last people I need addresses from are:
Barbara Patera
Georga Garside
Carol Wagner
Patsy Giclas
Agda Synnergren
Kim Shields

Please go to http://www.1000woodcuts.com/puzzle/project.html
and enter the appropriate info so I can send blocks to you

Thanks all!
M

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria#mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:15:10 EDT
Subject: [Baren 19328] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 

For removing the ball point pen ink I would phone any ball point pen 
manufacturer and ask them.
Good Luck
Carol L.

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End of Baren Digest V20 #1971
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