Baren Digest Friday, 12 July 2002 Volume 20 : Number 1894 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Myron Turner Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:13:41 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18692] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1888 There's all kinds of censorship. Some years ago I had a show of multi-media works at the Winnipeg Art Gallery, which was hung in its large central main floor gallery, where different kinds of functions are sometimes held, including the occasional wedding (it's a way for the gallery to earn some extra income). Most of my work was based on photos from World War II, and one mother of a bride objected to the content. So the gallery took down the work for the wedding and re-hung the show a few days later. There was a bit of a fuss from the art side of the equation and the gallery put a policy in place that this kind of thing wouldn't happen again. Truthfully, I could sympathize with the mother--who would want there kids getting married amid pictures of soldiers getting mowed down and people being bombed? But then this room wasn't the only place in the gallery building to hold the wedding. Myron At 08:21 AM 09/07/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Our childrens minds need to be open and heavy censorship of art is close >minded. I once was asked to hang a frontal female nude in a city hall. >. Well the nude show was objected to and my piece was the one removed as >a symbol >Marilynn ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:24:01 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18693] censorship This is really a sticky wicket, isn't it? How young are children able to see and understand the difference between censorship and pronography, nudes and cow dung??? My first son was reading at 4 and I remember taking him to the library every Saturday and lugging home dozens of books that we would lug back the following week. One day the librarian stopped me and said, you need to be careful what he reads, as some of these books are too old for him....my feeling was that things he was too old to understand would probably go by him and if he had questions he would ask me. He is now 32, mature, funny, cabable and not warped in any way I can see. He also saw his fair share of nude art work. Just because you are young doesn't mean you are not able to judge what is ok and what is not ok, either to read or see. I think we are hung up in the US, making the body somehow bad if it is unclothed and equating all nudity with sex. Left overs from our puritan ancestors I guess. If you do not want to see nudes, don't get married in an art gallery. Your choice. Best to all, Barbara ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:48:10 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18694] Re: censorship Right on, Barbara! Isn't it odd that our culture equates nudity = sex AND sex = evil --> nudity = evil... So we are supposed to be ashamed of our own bodies (ref: Expulsion from Eden). There's a beautiful Catholic Church a few blocks North of me. In 18 inch brushed metal letters offset half a foot from the South wall of the church, where everyone driving by can be sure to see, is written, "Mary conceived without sin. Forgive us." Talk about a heavy burden !! Reproduce and repent !! Mike At 07:24 AM 7/11/2002 -0700, Barbara wrote: >I think we are hung up in the US, making the body somehow bad if it is >unclothed and >equating all nudity with sex. Left overs from our puritan ancestors I guess. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Dan Dew Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:25:35 -0400 Subject: [Baren 18695] Re: censorship dear lee and barbara, this is lisa,dan's wife.we share e-mail and never i read his, but topic is somthing i have very strong feelings about being an art history teacher at a conservative christian school. i was one of the founding teachers and just quit at the end of this school year because i wanted to teach privately and work on my own stuff. from the beginning the school's stand was not to pull back on radical subjects, but to show all sides and teach the students to logicly decide what had quality,beauty, and virtue be it history, literature,art,sciences etc. i have stated very clearly to the powers in charge and to the parents that a student can't be taught beyond a landscape or a vase of flowers unless they study art that may have the human form,and i teach five though fourteen year olds. the kids get through the giggles in about a second and by fourth grade they become veterans at veiwing art. i do think art that is made for pure arousal and is either sexually violent or demeans God's creation of the human form crosses the line of great art and thats when i deam it a waste of my time and my students. i know you want to talk to dan so you will hear from him too,but this is one of my hot buttons. p.s. with the older students we have dicussed and debated the profane, i want them equipped to face the big world out there. lisa dew > From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" > Reply-To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:24:01 -0700 > To: "Baren Forum" > Subject: [Baren 18693] censorship > > This is really a sticky wicket, isn't it? How young are children able to see > and understand the difference between censorship and pronography, nudes and > cow dung??? > > My first son was reading at 4 and I remember taking him to the library every > Saturday and lugging home dozens of books that we would lug back the > following week. One day the librarian stopped me and said, you need to be > careful what he reads, as some of these books are too old for him....my > feeling was that things he was too old to understand would probably go by > him and if he had questions he would ask me. He is now 32, mature, funny, > cabable and not warped in any way I can see. He also saw his fair share of > nude art work. Just because you are young doesn't mean you are not able to > judge what is ok and what is not ok, either to read or see. I think we are > hung up in the US, making the body somehow bad if it is unclothed and > equating all nudity with sex. Left overs from our puritan ancestors I guess. > > If you do not want to see nudes, don't get married in an art gallery. Your > choice. > Best to all, > Barbara > ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:35:58 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18696] Re: wood grain, censorship & nudity... 07/11/2002 10:38:08 AM Speaking of nudity....for a while now I've been wanting to propose a 'Nude' exchange for one of our themes. After discussing the matter with our Coordinator of Coordinators (Mike)....I (we) want to put out the word to see list response. With exchange #15 already defined as a 'hanga-only' theme and ready to kick off later in the fall...the next opportunity would be with theme exchange #17....sometime in the spring of 2003. We could go with a straight 'Nude' theme or we can put a twist on it like we have done with some of the earlier themes...it could be a fun subject. My print from exchange #5, 'Paradise Island" was on display at the local library during one of the Skokie-Baren exhibits and I did not get any complaints or censorship issues (except for my wife who wanted to know who the model was!). http://barenforum.org/members/rodriguez/paradise.jpg suggestions ? comments ? thanks.....Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois) ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:55:24 -0500 Subject: [Baren 18697] Re: wood grain, censorship & nudity... What a wonderful design, Julio! If you still have those blocks, I think you ought to print them again now that you've had a few years' additional experience -- I bet you could make it much better! Mike At 10:35 AM 7/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >My print from exchange #5, 'Paradise Island" was on display at the local >library during one of the Skokie-Baren exhibits and I did not get any >complaints or censorship issues (except for my wife who wanted to know who >the model was!). > >http://barenforum.org/members/rodriguez/paradise.jpg > >suggestions ? comments ? Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Tyrus Clutter" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:47:05 -0600 Subject: [Baren 18698] Re: censorship & nudity... I was going to stay off this topic if I could, but as we have brought in the idea of a "nude" exchange I will say I am all for it. Now, I can tell you right now that it won't be shown in our campus galleries. In fact, for the past few years we have been nibbling away at the creation of a nudity policy for the galleries. We have a committee that is supposed to come up with a document about this (which means I do all the work and they either say it is ok or not). This is an especial problem because I work for a Christian University (Dan, thank Lisa for her input and perhaps we'll all discuss this, even with my parents present, while I'm in Florida). I understand the stance many conservatives take in this realm. In fact, I'm very conservative myself, though many people tell me I am not because of this one issue and because almost all of my work includes nudity. Well, when the administration first asked that this policy be made I tried to take the most progressive and inclusive road I could. I found out what was being done at other schools like ours and I did other research, brought in my findings and presented my case. My plan was to call this policy one for difficult work (as I could foresee things like the war images already discussed, and am currently working on a show of memorobilia and photographs from Vietnam Vets to go along with the campus display of the Moving Wall). This did not go over well. The second attempt narrowed back to nudity and stated that we would post a sign in front of the gallery with nudity and invite viewers to visit our other gallery if they felt they might be offended. This didn't work either (and we thought it quite a compromise). Well, we have a new dean as of last week, so we will see how the saga continues in the coming year. I plan to show exchanges 12 & 14 in January, and know that some pieces will have to be hidden a bit (including my nude Christ). Hopefully, this doesn't encourage everyone in 14 to do a nude--I can only take so much pressure folks! TyRuS ><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~>< Prof. Tyrus Clutter Professor of Painting, Printmaking, & Art History Director of Friesen Art Galleries Dept. of Art & Music Northwest Nazarene University 623 Holly St. Nampa, Idaho 83686 TRClutter@NNU.edu (208) 467-8398 ------------------------------ From: "marilynn smih" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:19:20 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18699] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1893 Jean congratulations on your teaching job. I have been reading the exchange 14 mail, finally. It contained a lot about the boxes available for exchanges. I am sure that 14a participants can aquire boxes through the baren by going into the exchange area. And you can order the exact box as 14 as our prints are the same size. So if you want one get busy and get one. Marilynn ------------------------------ From: "PHARE-CAMP,PATTI (HP-USA,ex1)" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:10:27 -0700 Subject: [Baren 18700] RE: Baren Digest V20 #1892 ... censorship of art is close minded. I tell ya! I got home from school late the other night and a message was left on my answering machine from the "Social Reform Party" threatening me with investigation due to my association with a gallery that is NEXT DOOR to a gallery exhibiting, according to the caller, "...pornography, satanic cult ritual art and swastikas..." I haven't seen that galleries show yet, it may or may not be blatant; but what the heck have I got to do with it and what are they doing with my home phone number and address! There are some scary people in the world...Patti ------------------------------ From: "PHARE-CAMP,PATTI (HP-USA,ex1)" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:05:55 -0400 Subject: [Baren 18701] RE: Baren Digest V20 #1889 "...On the KC 2003 gathering, we are still anxiously awaiting suggestions..." High Tea and Cookies... ------------------------------ From: Minna Sora Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:23:03 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Baren 18702] Re: censorship & nudity... I'm afraid this talk about censoring normal classical nudity is not kidding? Somehow I feel very happy about living in Europe. Today's traditional day for sauna, so maybe I go to public sauna to expose myself extra nudity. Minna ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V20 #1894 *****************************