Baren Digest               Wednesday, 22 May 2002       Volume 19 : Number 1837


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From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:40:55 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18128] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1836 

Tyrus,
I've had about the same luck as others with selling at juried shows. I used
to enter a lot of them and the only pieces I recall selling were the prize
winners - except at one show in the midwest where I sold three years in a
row. I need to get on the ball and enter there again!

Someone mentioned thinning or altering etching ink with the medium made by
the same company as the ink.  I have never done that, though it may be a
very good idea :>), I use Miracle gel reducer in every brand and it works
very well, also it never hardens in the can - virtually lasts forever, does
not yellow, has no fumes or odor - it lives up to its name.  The more you
use the more transparent the color becomes.
Sharri



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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:59:11 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18129] Re: Ink and paper 

Myron

I did a little test with the Basingwerk paper and Rives and there is a 
world of difference. The paper IS very shiny and non absorbent to be 
sure. Well, I learned my lesson. Certain papers with certain inks, etc.
Also the Basingwerk paper does not dampen very well. I got the paper for 
wood engraving purposes and thought it would work for wood blocks as 
well, uh , uh.

Jeanne N.


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From: "Linda" <LMHTWB@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:28:11 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18130] Re: packaging prints for sale 


> Regarding the recent thread Maria started about how to present prints for
> sale, ...


After talking to a couple of people who buy art at art fairs, I have a few
comments to which I would like your to response.

The people I talked to do not consider themselves art collectors and would
never buy anything over $500, unless they are madly in love with it.  They
are middle to upper middle income with mortgages, so money is there, it's
just not there in huge amounts.  They do, however, buy art at art fairs and
not at galleries because they like the larger variety, the lower prices, and
the chance to meet the artist.  When they buy a piece, they want to take it
home and hang it up.  (I may erroneously be assuming that these are typical
buyers at art fairs, but it's what I have to go on right now.)

Here's a few ideas concerning framing and matting:
- -- seeing a booth of nothing but white mats and gold or black frames is
boring and they will walk on
- -- finding a piece they like in a frame and/or mats that they don't like
will encourage them to walk on, because they don't want the bother/expense
of reframing the piece
- -- they really don't understand the difference between normal framing and
archival framing, so any price difference is lost on them
- -- sloppy framing or matting is a BIG turn off and they will walk on
- -- colorful mats that highlight colors in the piece help them see how the
piece would fit in to their decorating scheme, and even B&W pieces don't
always have to be framed in white mats with black frames

The main point that I figured out was how they view the artwork.  I look at
one of my pieces and the important stuff is the artwork.  The framing and
matting should be
secondary.  They look at a piece as the whole package.  The framing and
matting are as important as the art.  We as artists think that the art
should be the focal point of a wall, if not the room.  And thus, we follow
all the advice from books and galleries to frame basically everything in
white mats and gold or black frames so that the artwork stands out.  But the
public wants art to be an accent to their rooms -- not the center of
attention.   If appropriate, they would rather see colored mats than white
ones, because the colored mats would go better with the rest of the room.
There are not a lot of home decorated in the minimalist style!

Okay, I've got my flak jacket on and I'm ready for comments.  [;-)] 

Linda,
devil's advocate


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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:05:09 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18131] Re: packaging prints for sale 
Linda,
You bring up a few good points. However, I think that you can show work at a
fair in a way that is not boring, even with white mats. Maria seems to do it
well. Most of us frame for galleries as well as fairs and it is real
inconvenient to mat differently for two markets. Color does catch the eye,
but there are other ways to get color into a booth rather than mats.

Part of our job as artists is to educate and that is the big thing, get
their attention and teach them a bit. Our salvation as artists is an
educated public. I always assume they want to learn. I know artists that do
have fancy framing included with their work but I do not know that they sell
more. No way to match everyone's colors and for sure if I used colored mats,
they would say, I sure like that print, wish it wasn't matted in blue as my
house is rose.....heheheheheh.
Barbara


> After talking to a couple of people who buy art at art fairs, I have a few
> comments to which I would like your to response.
>
> The people I talked to do not consider themselves art collectors and would
> never buy anything over $500, unless they are madly in love with it>


> The main point that I figured out was how they view the artwork.  I look

at

> one of my pieces and the important stuff is the artwork.  The framing and
> matting should be
> secondary.  They look at a piece as the whole package.  The framing and
> matting are as important as the artin the minimalist style!
> Linda,




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From: b.patera@att.net
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:55:11 +0000
Subject: [Baren 18132] Re: packaging prints for sale 

It is interesting to talk about the different ways there 
are of matting artwork.

When doing a gallery show I mat and frame my prints 
archivally using the white and or black museum boards 
and narrow black or pewter frames. I do this because 
most galleries will not accept the prints if otherwise 
matted. 

However, if I am framing for myself or friends, colors 
abound. Love to pick up colors in a print and use them 
in the matting.... usually, but not always, an  inner 
mat. And, since I have found that most people pick 
prints or artwork that has colors they like and use, I 
guess you could say that I have matted and framed things 
to go with " the couch".

Never have done the show circuit with prints.... but one 
of the most successful printers in the area uses a off 
white top mat and then one or two of several different 
colors for inner mats. She always complements the colors 
in her prints, usually one of the blues or russets, and 
being in the Pacific Northwest they sell 
like "gangbusters". She also keeps her matted prints to 
standard sizes and finds it a big plus for those who 
don't feel they can afford the framed item. Knowing they 
can pick up an inexpensive frame and pop their new print 
into it helps with the sale. Oh, her frames are navy 
blue, russet, and pewter nielsen's.... 


Barbara P.

 

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From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:40:31 EDT
Subject: [Baren 18133] Re: packaging prints for sale 

I don't do art fairs at this point mostly i do the art for myself.   I find 
white matts to be very boreing and the frames from frame shops to be of poor 
quality and way to expenisve for what you get.  The last time i used a frame 
shop it cost me almost 200$ for latice and brads.  So at that point i decided 
to make my own so for about 50$ i get a costume hand carved frame made out of 
black walnut, cherry, purple heart or some other hard wood or even a 
combination of all three  or more. When i carve the frame i add text that 
relates to the print in the frame so it becomes part of the piece and not 
just something to hold art work.  As  i mostly do bleed prints so i don't use 
window matts. 

A good precentage of my work ends up as part of artist books. I like to 
make objects to be apart of the artist book   such as a carved box.   About 
the only time i do editioned prints is for exchanges such as baren or w.e. n. 
 or for political posters but that is a nother story.
half of the fireman prints are in the mail today  i will be getting the rest 
in the mail this week or early next week.

john center

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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:20:43 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18137] RE: yet more on that sale thing 

Nice jacket, Linda! Here are my devilish answers!  [:-)] 

> Here's a few ideas concerning framing and matting:
> -- seeing a booth of nothing but white mats and gold or black frames is
> boring and they will walk on


On the other hand, a booth/grouping of art with a consistent theme and look
can be very attractive. An artist I know sells white on white embossed
works, framed with white mats and black frames. His booth looks meditative
and beautiful and will attract the kind of people that are attracted to b&w.


> -- finding a piece they like in a frame and/or mats that they don't like
> will encourage them to walk on, because they don't want the bother/expense
> of reframing the piece


On the other other hand, if someone gives your art _any_ attention, you may
put on your sales hat and offer to "pop that sucker out of the frame for
ya." I would not encourage you to offer to reframe and ship or you will
spend your life as a framer, not an artist. You can also adopt the "take it
or leave it" approach. I'm often saying without apology: "I can't possibly
match everyone's house decor" and alternatively, "take it as is and it will
be well protected until you reframe it." If they like the art enough, they
will buy it unless your framing is so hideous that it makes them ill (I have
a story about that too).


> -- they really don't understand the difference between normal framing and
> archival framing, so any price difference is lost on them


To this I say...screw THEM. This is MY art and it is meant to last and I
will use only archival materials. Buying quantities of mats, backing, tapes,
etc, will lessen the expense of the good stuff, often at 30% savings. Once
you get used to it, it is just as easy to work with wheat starch paste as it
is to use Elmer's glue or (GASP!) spray adhesive #77. I'll tell you one
thing that people DO know is how much framing costs now a days.


> -- sloppy framing or matting is a BIG turn off and they will walk on


Yep.


> -- colorful mats that highlight colors in the piece help them see how the
> piece would fit in to their decorating scheme, and even B&W pieces don't
> always have to be framed in white mats with black frames


I guess I have seen so much art framed so differently...my personal approach
is:
one or two accent mats, a white or off-white outer mat, a walnut/cherry or
black wood frame (they travel better than metal and can be repaired) of the
same modern-non-descript style http://www.pictureframes.com or
http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com or http://www.americanframe.com. Since
I tear hand made papers for many of my prints, I float some pieces, still
matting around the float. As diverse results as you can get with those
guidelines, still the overall impression is cohesive. Keep in mind many
people will buy two and three pieces if they like the look of them. Double
matting has made a huge difference in my sales and it's not that much more
work once I'm in "framing mode."
By all means I agree with the standard size thing. In fact, if I were
restricted by some unknown dictator to only frame in one size I would adopt
the Jim Mundie approach: 16" x 20" with a generous mat. By far the best
selling size. I also like the idea of adding the glazing to the matted work,
only for art festivals that would be asking for trouble with all the moving
and shaking goin' on.

You are right on with the rest, very observant! I learned the hard way that
presentation is extremely important when people are looking at your booth
for only about 2-4 seconds to decide if they want to stop and really look
inside. I ended up reframing "stale" works and I have a bunch of cheap
frames to prove it! Any takers? Kidding, kidding...

I have also seen "over-framed" works, 5" x 7" etchings with huge 8-ply mats
and gold ornate frames priced at $500 or higher. I have seen giclees framed
ornately and priced over a thou. To me they look ridiculous and pompous. An
artist even bragged that he was more a reseller of frames at a handsome
profit than an artist. Who am I to say any different! Except that "it ain't
me, babe." And heaven forbid that all artists framed anywhere near the same!

Happy trails,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From: Myron Turner <mturner@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:44:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 18138] Re: Ink and paper 

Jeanne,

Your posting about Basingwerk got my curiosity up. I did a search but 
couldn't find much info, except that Daniel Smith seems to have stopped 
selling it.  It seems to be used for letterpress printing and wood 
engravings.  I have a suspicion that the gloss on Basingwerk is the result 
of being coated, which would account for its lack of absorbency and its 
resistance to be dampened properly.

  found a website which defines coated and uncoated:

Coated:  Paper with a clay or other coating applied to one or both sides. 
The coating can be dull, gloss, matte, or other finishes. Coated papers 
generally produce sharper, brighter images and have better reflectivity 
than uncoated papers.

Uncoated:   Paper that does not have any kind of coating applied. Uncoated 
papers are available in many different finishes, colors, and weights and 
are generally more absorbent than coated papers.


Myron

Glossy papers in magazines are coated.
At 12:59 PM 21/05/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Myron
>
>I did a little test with the Basingwerk paper and Rives and there is a 
>world of difference. The paper IS very shiny and non absorbent to be sure. 
>Well, I learned my lesson. Certain papers with certain inks, etc.
>Also the Basingwerk paper does not dampen very well. I got the paper for 
>wood engraving purposes and thought it would work for wood blocks as well, 
>uh , uh.
>
>Jeanne N.



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From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:22:46 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18139] Re: Ink and paper  

Myron Turner wrote:

> Your posting about Basingwerk got my curiosity up. I did a search but couldn't
> find much info, except that Daniel Smith seems to have stopped selling it.  It

<snip>
Jeanne wrote:

> > I did a little test with the Basingwerk paper and Rives and there is a world
> > of difference. The paper IS very shiny and non absorbent to be sure. Well, I


That's interesting, because I've tested for Hanga papers & Basingwerk was one of
the papers that took dampening & absorbed water based pigments very well. I don't
soak my papers though - just a spritz with my handy dandy spray bottle on every
2nd paper & then wrapped in plastic to spend the night transferring that moisture
throughout the sheet. 

Surprisingly, another paper that works -although it is a bit thick for using a
baren - is Stonehenge. It pays to do paper testing, you never know what kind of
jewel you will find!

Wanda

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End of Baren Digest V19 #1837
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