Baren Digest                Sunday, 19 May 2002        Volume 19 : Number 1834


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From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:29:24 EDT
Subject: [Baren 18089] Guerra 



Hi, Guerra doesn't have a website that I know of, but you can call them at : 
(212) 529-0628 (I'm not sure if they have a toll free number).
Sarah



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From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:56:33 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18090] Re: pricing 

I only once sold a print on time. The person paid me a quarter of the 
price, she took the print, and I never heard from her again. I decided that 
was not a good idea at all. It's hard enough to sell anything; giving it 
away intentionally is one thing, but unintentionally giving it was not what 
I had planned! Oh well.
Shireen

At 07:50 PM 5/17/02 -0700, Barbara wrote:

> Would you ask your dentist or your grocer for a
>discount???? why your artist???? So i just gently say that no, I don't do
>discounts unless they buy more than one piece and then it is 10% but I would
>gladly sell it to them on time....hehehehheheh.


***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireenh@earthlink.net
http://www.shireenholman.com
***********************************************



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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:35:23 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18091] get the money 

Shireen,
The old saying get the money applies here...you should have kept the print
until you got all the money. We do this at the gallery here all the time and
as soon as we have all the money they get the work. If they take it on
approval, we take their visa card number and if they don't bring it back, we
run it through. We have had little trouble doing this and sell work on time
a lot. Maybe people are less likely to intimidate a gallery that an
individual....
So sorry you lost money. It really stays in your mind doesn't it? No matter
how hard you try to just let it go.
Barbara


> I only once sold a print on time. The person paid me a quarter of the
> price, she took the print, and I never heard from her again. I decided

that

> was not a good idea at all. It's hard enough to sell anything; giving it
> away intentionally is one thing, but unintentionally giving it was not

what

> I had planned! Oh well.
> Shireen
>



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From: "Dan Sabo" <dan@dansabo.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:40:52 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18092] RE: get the money 

Have you guys ever considered selling your art on line?  I've seen lots of
artists web sites over the years where they sell their artwork on the net.
It can be set up to take secure credit card transactions, COD, checks, etc.

You can also have thumbnail views and even extremely large blow up examples
(if you want them) so people can see your work before they purchase.

Dan



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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:40:28 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18093] New addition to our family 

Baren member Brad Schwartz and wife Helen from Spokane just became a father.
Little Olivia weighed in at 8.53 pounds, a good strong girl. If you want to
see new baby pictures follow the link. To steal a phrase from John Amoss,
she must be an up and coming printmaker as she made such a good impression!!
Congratulations to you Brad!
Best to all,
Barbara

http://www.baschwar.com/olivia/



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From: Aqua4tis@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:50:50 EDT
Subject: [Baren 18094] Re: pricing 

what id like to do is start selling everything shrink wrapped    i really 
dont want to frame anything    if this is done nicely   do you all think that 
would be ok?   thanks for any input       and maria and barbara      hearing 
what you do really helps me
thanks
georga

------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:51:45 EDT
Subject: [Baren 18095] Re: Guerra 

thanks for the information on guerra sarah
 [:-)] 
georga

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From: "george jarvis" <gjarvis@k8.dion.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 01:51:36 +0900
Subject: [Baren 18096] Paper acidity 

Greetings [BAREN] people.

Dave Bull agrees it is time for me to de-lurk.
Since my first primitive woodcut in 1957
I have been making images on and off,
more or less continuously. Recently my
output consists of about half work in acrylic
and half printmaking, mostly of the 
monochrome oily woodcut variety.

I have a question for either Dave or perhaps
Jack Reisland about the acidity of paper.
Concerned with permanence I have made
it a habit to check the pH of the papers I
have been using with a pH test pen obtained
from a Japanese printer's supply firm.
I also use it test various samples I have 
obtained from paper suppliers.

The factory-made 100% kozo papers
that I have been using tested all neutral
to mildly alkaline, but a number of the 
samples of traditional hand-made 
papers, even the considerably expensive
ones tested acid. Wondering if my test 
pen had gone strange I obtained another
from Lineco, but the results were the 
same as with the Japanese pen.

Any speculation as to the causes or 
implications of this? Acid rain?

I also obtained a lignin test pen from
University Products to test some Kozo 
and sulfite paper. The results were 
negative for lignin. One would think 
a lignin-free pulp to be quite stable. 
Is this a safe assumption?

 I just changed the paper on some second 
floor south-facing shoji. It hadn't been 
changed in about three years (lazy)
but had not discolored. It was made of
rayon and kozo. Just out of curiosity I 
tested the old paper. It tested out 
lignin-free and still mildly alkaline in 
pH, but in spite of this had become 
quite brittle. How much UV damage
occurs even in an acid-free situation?

Does anyone have any experience 
with Wei T'o solutions or other
methods for neutralizing, preventing
or reversing acid damage/oxidation
in works on paper?

G.Jarvis

This being my first attempt to mail to 
the forum, I hope it gets to the right 
place.



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From: Artsmadis@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:14:18 EDT
Subject: [Baren 18097] Re: Paper acidity 

In a message dated 5/18/02 11:56:43 AM Central Daylight Time, 
gjarvis@k8.dion.ne.jp writes:

<< but a number of the 
 samples of traditional hand-made 
 papers, even the considerably expensive
 ones tested acid. Wondering if my test 
 pen had gone strange I obtained another
 from Lineco, but the results were the 
 same as with the Japanese pen.
 Any speculation as to the causes or 
 implications of this? Acid rain? >>

One thing you might consider is the water you use to wet the papers.  If you 
are using city water I know the pH varies from day to day, sometimes it is 
acid, could affect your results.  I guess you should test the water by itself

Darrell

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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:28:41 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18098] Re: pricing 

Georga,
I would go for bags instead of shrink wrap. They sure hold up better. See
http://www.clearbags.com/ for bags. I like the ones that self seal. Shrink
wrap looks good, but it does tear pretty easily and then looks bad.
Barbara


> what id like to do is start selling everything shrink wrapped    i really
> dont want to frame anything    if this is done nicely   do you all think

that

> would be ok?   thanks for any input       and maria and barbara

hearing

> what you do really helps me
> thanks
> georga
>



------------------------------

From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:20:56 -1000
Subject: [Baren 18099] Re: Paper acidity 

OK, that's a lot of questions.

I can't speculate as to why you are getting acidic test results on
hand-made Japanese papers, perhaps Dave has some ideas. As for the
lignin free paper, its stability will depend on its acid content, as
lignin free can still be acidic from some other source. Test it both
ways.
  As for your rayon/kozo shoji paper, the problem of brittleness is most
likely because of the rayon content. Although the rayon will make for a
nice tough paper when it is new, rayon is very susceptible to UV damage,
no matter what the PH range. Any shoji covered with rayon/kozo paper in
direct sunlight is doomed to becoming brittle.
  Lastly, Wei T'o solutions work fine for neutralizing paper, but are
generally intended for treatment of finished works. It seems like a real
pain to have to treat all your papers before printing, and you would
have to do some tests to see how it affects the printability of the
paper.

Jack R.



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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:35:14 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18100] Ink and paper 

Have just completed my music print.
It seems that the ink lays on top of the paper and takes forever to dry.
It is very humid this time in Florida, perhaps that has something to do 
with the drying time but that is in question.=20

I used Basingwerk paper and Daniel Smith Intense black etching ink also 
some Setswell. Does this sound compatible? The print is shiny and looks 
just too slick. Almost as if it were going to slide off of the paper.=20
I printed this one while in my garage, before I took over my new studio. 
The paper was the only kind available at the time. I usually use Rives.

Jeanne N.


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From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:47:19 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18101] Re: Ink and paper 

Jeanne,

I assume this is wood you are using as a plate. Are you using damp 
paper? That would help. You could put a little drier in the ink. I 
usually use litho ink for block printing, so haven't much experience 
with etching ink, but this is strange. Someone on the list may have an 
idea. Usually ink gets shiny when it layers over itself, are you 
printing more than one run with the ink on the same block? It does sound 
like it is just sitting on the paper. Very odd. How long is it taking to 
dry? If it is longer than a week, I would use the cobalt drier. Be 
careful, don't get it on your skin. Roll up a paper into a narrow twist 
and dip it into the drier, then put a drop or two off this paper into 
your ink and mix it in. This should solve the drying problem. I am 
unsure about the shiny look. I haven't used this paper, but someone on 
this list probably loves it!

Best to you,
Barbara

 
------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 19:10:46 -0500
Subject: [Baren 18102] Re: Ink and paper 

Jeanne,

Basingwerk is itself shiny and its surface (I would guess) is quite hard 
for relief prints and probably not very absorbent .  Rives, on the other 
hand, is soft and absorbent.  I've never used etching inks for woodblocks, 
but that might be another problem.  I don't do intaglio myself, but 
thinking back to the little that I did more than 20 years ago, is it 
possible that intaglio ink may be too tacky for relief printing, which 
might cause it also to sit on the surface, especially of a paper like 
Basingwerk?


Myron



------------------------------

From: "Linda" <LMHTWB@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:49:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18103] Re: Ink and paper 

From: "Jeanne N. Chase"


>>Have just completed my music print.  It seems that the ink lays on top of

the paper and takes forever to dry.  It is very humid this time in Florida,
perhaps that has something to do with the drying time but that is in
question.<<

Interesting how things contrast.  I was just getting ready to write to this
group and ask for some advice on how to slow the drying of ink.  I'm using
Graphic Chemical's water-based relief ink and am having a problem with it
drying too fast.  By the time I ink up the block and print it, the ink on my
ink slab is already half dry and basically unuseable.  I know the main
culprit is the fact that I live in a desert with almost no humidity, so I'm
not hopeful that there is a solution, other than to use oil-based inks or
just live with using a lot of water-based ink.  But I will entertain all
(reasonable) suggestions.

By the way, my music print is the first thing that I've tried to print since
moving from Iowa to California and it's been interesting.  The good part is
that the paper dries quickly and prints on dry paper dry fully in about an
hour.  The ink drying too fast is the bad side.  I think I'll have to try
oil-based inks if I can't figure some way to slow the drying of water-based
inks.  I get too annoyed with rolling out more ink each time I do one print.

Linda


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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:33:24 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18104] RE: to frame or not 

Georga,

I agree with Barbara, clear bags are very nice. The only thing I don't like
is that you have to buy in great quantities so my very large stuff I still
shrink wrap because I don't really want to have that many bags around.
Shrink wrapping holds up better over time (and wind and sand and dirt
storms) than the bags. The bags are definitely faster to work with. Half a
dozen of one and six of the other.

On the matted vs. framed, you may unknowingly lose sales if people have to
frame their own. I have seen artists with a booth full of matted stuff sell
very little because people really want "ready to hang" stuff. Some of my
customers have talked themselves out of saving money by buying my matted art
because they themselves recognize that they will never get around to framing
it. All in all, framing is a good skill to have, makes your art look MUCH
better and folks like the "ready to hang" concept.
One thing you could do is have selected framed stuff priced fairly high and
then have the matted stuff reasonably priced. This will sway folk to buy the
matted art and still envision the beauty of framed art. I hate to say it but
presentation counts for a lot when it comes to the public. The vast majority
of the public are decorating their homes, although you will also get some
serious art collectors.
You can try both ways and see what happens. My revenue has increased
considerably after I started framing better and I have reduced (somewhat
reluctantly, I kind of hate to spend any time on framing) the number of
matted works. Amazingly enough, same number of sales but more money is the
result. I charge for the frame and a reasonable amount for the framing job.
People know how much it costs to frame stuff and they appreciate your
prices. On the other other hand, if you double mat your works and bag'em,
you might get some takers. Someone suggested to me that I could include the
plexiglass in the bag and that would take the matted work to a higher level
yet in terms of being ready to frame. I use glass so I didn't try that but
it could work.
Other artists have a "may I take your order" approach. They show "demo"
framed prints only but don't sell what they show. Instead, they take orders
with choice of frame and mat and stuff like that. They show their work with
a "print only" and "framed print" price, usually a couple of hundred dollars
difference between the two prices for a decent size work. I would hate to go
back home and have to fill and ship a bunch of orders, so I don't do
anything custom. If people like what I have on hand, they take it at the
festival, if they don't they don't. If they request a custom job I simply
tell them that I don't do that, unless they are purchasing several large
prints.

Anyhow, try it and see what happens. Your results may vary, as the saying
goes.
Good luck and keep us posted please, always good to hear about artists
making it.

Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> [mailto:owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp]On Behalf Of Aqua4tis@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:51 AM
> To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Subject: [Baren 18094] Re: pricing
>
>
> what id like to do is start selling everything shrink wrapped    i really
> dont want to frame anything    if this is done nicely   do you
> all think that
> would be ok?   thanks for any input       and maria and barbara
> hearing
> what you do really helps me
> thanks
> georga
>



------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 14:44:42 +0900
Subject: [Baren 18105] Re: Paper acidity 

George wrote:


> Dave Bull agrees it is time for me to de-lurk.
> Since my first primitive woodcut in 1957
> I have been making images on and off,
> more or less continuously.


Lurking since 1957 ... well _of course_ I suggested it was time for you 
to 'come out'!

Given the length of your experience in this craft, it seems as though it 
should be _we_ who ask _you_ most of the questions I think!  Why don't 
you post a bit more and let the group know about the kind of work you 
are doing ...


> ... a number of the
> samples of traditional hand-made
> papers, even the considerably expensive
> ones tested acid.


This is a new one on me. Considering the method/materials that go into 
handmade papers here, it's hard to see where such acidity would be 
coming from. You speculated 'acid rain' and I guess that is a growing 
problem here (from the Chinese coal burning) but even if the river water 
was slightly acidic, would that be carried over into the finished paper?

I would have expected, if anything, that paper would carry an alkali pH 
value, given the soda 'cooking' that it undergoes to separate all the 
fibres ...

Whose paper was this George?

Dave


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End of Baren Digest V19 #1834
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