Baren Digest               Tuesday, 19 June 2001       Volume 15 : Number 1463


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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:46:49 -0500
Subject: [Baren 14881] Re: Eli's idea & ebay offer 06/19/2001 01:46:42 AM 

Wow, I did not realize my post would gather up the troops in such an
uproar. You guys are FANtastic!

I too would like to join the group and support such a project...as long as
it is in a positive and educational format. We should not be getting into a
war of words with the other side. The quality and beauty of our prints
should always lead the way...and be our best spokesman.

I agree with Maria and some of the others that we should not get into a
word fight with the people making repros...they have a right to make a
living just like everyone else and if they are doing something illegal,
well, I think there are people & agencies out there that can make them
accountable.

I am all for us banding together and/or  with other printmaking
groups/sites & putting together a document that describes the differences
between all the print media, digital imaging, giclees etc.....as long as it
is fair to all and educational and we make it available for almost nothing.
Such an article can be "read" on ebay, linked to our baren site and others
and basically given away to anyone who asks....the price can be the minimum
necessary by ebay, remembering that the object is to get people to read the
thing...not necessarily to purchase it. There is one type of auction on
ebay where a large number of like items can be sold thru one listing...we
can put...500 for sale at $0.50 each (the cost of mailing ?)..that way
people don't really bid on it but rather each person can get one at the
initial offer price...cross reference the tittle for PRINTS, WOODBLOCKS,
ART, etc....so as to reach as many search-types as possible....and then
keep putting the "item" back outhere every couple of weeks...we can see how
many hits we get a day, week, etc....to see how many people we are
reaching. We must ensure that the info is clear in the article that this is
not one of those money-making schemes so popular now on the net but rather
an  informational resource for print buyers put together by printmakers...
the very low price and a CATCHY item description should attract hundreds if
not thousands of peeks....we should also as a group be ready and willing to
answer the many inquries & questions that are sure to come our way from
confused or enlightened ebayers ....here is where a cd reference could be
used to continue the education....perhaps not only educating the public but
also including images of prints by some of our members and a detailed
descrition of the process....

While it is good to keep shoving the info down people's throat like Maria
says...this can't hurt the cause and has the potential to reach more people
in one day than many of us could in a a whole year of preaching! Even with
all the documentation and info I have posted at the Skokie exhibit, you be
surpised how many people want to argue with me that what they are looking
at are paintings or watercolors...and many really don't understand the
whole print edition vs poster prints debate.

Perhaps having the names of all the baren members willing to participate &
back the project at the bottom of the document would add some credibilty to
the information......something simple like artist's name, city, state and
primary medium. I f we can get 200-300 names attached to this...that alone
should raise some eyebrows! Sort of an emancipation declaration for the
printmaking community.

Julio


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From: "Gregory Robison" <robison@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:46:19 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14882] "Fake" vs. "real" prints charset="iso-8859-1" 

I would like to cast a vote against undertaking any project to re-educate
the public regarding the virtues of our way of doing things.  It is best, in
my view, simply to do well what we do, and make it easy for people to find
out about us and to buy our work.

Certificates of authenticity and brief explanations of the traditional
printmaking process we practice are great ideas.  Press releases that
clearly describe the way we work and its place in the spectrum of artistic
methods would be useful.  In both of these areas the Council can be useful
in collecting possible forms or language which can be freely available to
the membership for use as appropriate.

But any commentary by us about what other people are doing, or what they
should be doing (or not doing), is pointless, ineffectual and distracting.

It is pointless and ineffectual because the trends we are trying to stem --
whether these trends are due to commercial or artistic motivations (or even
greed) -- are deep and, ultimately, unstoppable.  But it is also distracting
for us, as a group of artists dedicated to a particular art form, because
the energy and resources we spend attempting to stop the tide are energy and
resources that could have gone into something more positive.

Very concretely, I am dismayed to hear how many people are eager and willing
to offer a dollar or ten to fund this project instead of, say, offering to
fund awards or prizes for excellent relief prints submitted to our shows or
exchanges, or to help defray the expenses of exhibitions of the works of our
members, or similar activities.  Such prizes and exhibitions are occasions
for press releases and publicity that will indirectly achieve our aim of
educating the public, while directly promoting what we do.

It is unrealistic, in my view, to say, "well, we can and must do both."  It
is very easy for any group to lose its focus, and Baren already has some
divergent tendencies.

It's also easy to start having the wrong kind of pride in what we do, i.e.,
not the pride that is "joy in excellence" but the pride that is a vice,
whose synonym is arrogance.  For example, the idea that buyers of art might
look for something that will go with the sofa, or who change the framed
artwork on their walls when they change their carpets, isn't necessarily
such a contemptible notion.  There was an article recently in one of the
British arts magazines which quoted a UK artist as having finally
recognized -- after having long been driven crazy by this -- that people who
treat graphic art as wallpaper may well be artists, too, in their own way:
it's just that their 'canvas' is their whole house.  Just as we look at one
of our own compositions and say, 'I need a warm color over here' and then
work in an appropriate design element, some art buyers say to themselves,
'this corner in my room requires a bold graphic piece, one that is more
vertical than horizontal, and that has some cool red in it,' etc.  They may
be able to get this, and create a successful composition for their whole
room, with an original watercolor, or a reproduction, or a giclee print, or
a hand-pulled woodblock print...  We need to have the humility to recognize
that what we do has, perhaps, some absolute worth as far as we are
concerned, but only 'relative' worth as far as most consumers of art are
concerned.  This is not necessarily a moral failing on their part that
demands correction from us or anyone else.

As the Castilian peasants used to say (and maybe they still do, bless 'em!),
Haz bien y no mires a quien ('Do the right thing and don't look at other
people'),

Gregory Robison
Edinburgh, Scotland

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From: michael schneider <mikasch@t0.or.at>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:00:25 +0200
Subject: [Baren 14883] Re: "Fake" vs. "real" prints 

Gregory,thank you. You explained my opinion better than I would have
been able to.

michael schneider

Vienna, Austria

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From: "Garth Hammond" <Garthart@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:54:27 -0600
Subject: [Baren 14884] Re: more on giclees charset="iso-8859-1" 

Maria, Maria , Maria,,,,,, you can read this as tut tut tut or---as the
lyrics of West Side Story......your choice...My intent is:

You are right in your analysis of capitalism and the "Many more people than
you may think aren't confused at all, they simply
want a blue/teal semi-abstract for their wall "  The point for me is that
history is written by people who play in the events of the time.  If we
don't put our point of view out there then our point of view will
dissappear.  Our smart mouth Michael serves us. He represents the Vulgarian
trend the make it loud and add bass, "make it for show" times that seem to
be developing.  We can lament this or respond to the best in ourselves.  I
like Maria's spiel and point of view funny irreverant and right on.  If we
want to sell and to contribute our nudge to the culture than we better get
out there.

 I want to be clear as a personal statement that I do not like the culture I
live in I find the materalistic psuedo religious SUV power culture to be
life threatening and not affirming.  However........This is where I am and I
will do my best and I "believe" and have experienced that good will and
focus can change minds and the directions of institutions.  And I love it
when someone gets it that the world is bigger than TV or advertising and
that real mystery lurks everywhere. If you just shut up and look and listen
which is what I am going to do.

Bye

Garth



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End of Baren Digest V15 #1463
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