Baren Digest               Wednesday, 23 May 2001       Volume 13 : Number 1428


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From: Steve Goddard <goddard@ku.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:41:25 -0500
Subject: [Baren 14518] Re: UKansas acceptance of Baren portfolio 

>Thanks again, Stephen Goddard, for your acceptance of the Baren prints!

You are welcome, and thank you all for sharing! I'm very happy that the 
portfolios will have a permanent home here. This seems appropriate as we 
are a university museum with a strong tradition in teaching the history of 
prints and a strong interest in the role of the Internet in the arts. Best 
wishes.

Steve

Stephen Goddard
Curator of Prints and Drawings
Professor of Art History
goddard@ku.edu
http://www.ku.edu/~sma/prints.html


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From: GWohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:00:25 -0400
Subject: [Baren 14519] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427--Archival or not 

>If not working with archival paper is a sin I am in big trouble.
>When I first went to art school everyone used to go on about archival 
>paper and mounts, I just wanted my work to last until the end of the 
>semester when it would be marked. I now try to work on Khadi paper.
>I have scanned a whole lot of watercolours into my computer and print
them 
>out on watercolour paper. I frame them and give them for presents. Will 
>the paper outlive the image? I don't know but they look great.

Spending money on art is a luxury for a lot of people.  To have it
disintegrate in a short time is disappointing.  However, if you give the
fugitive ones to friends and family only, then I guess they can't (as
the old adage goes)  look a gift horse in the mouth.  My favorite gifts
from artist friends have been ones that I know are made with the
integrity of the artist.  I have two wonderful totally archival pieces
from my friend, Beth, and they hang on my living room wall.  The
computer image one (not made by Beth) , though a bit interesting,
doesn't thrill me like those monoprints handprinted by Beth on the best
archival papers.  But then, if I weren't an artist myself, maybe I
wouldn't notice.  I wouldn't want to be the unsuspecting public, though,
if these digital prints were being sold for a lot of money and I thought
they were more stable than they are.  

I like everything handmade.  I also like natural fibers, spun wool,
sweaters knit by hand instead of machine, hand pieced quilts instead of
machine pieced.  So that's me, and my preferences, I guess.  But heck, I
like my computer and printing out text that way is kind of nice with a
laser printer, don't you think?  Or is handset type even better?  

Gayle

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From: "Patricia" <patricia26@optushome.com.au>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:09:36 +1000
Subject: [Baren 14520] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427--Archival or not charset="iso-8859-1" 

There is nothing fugitive about giving copies of watercolours to
friends/family. They know I have produced a lot of work on my computer, some
even ask me what sort of printer I used. Most of them like the images. They
are printed on what would would be considered 'archival' paper.
I go through a lot of printers - I have a 7 year contract with Lexmark to
replace them when they go to god. Lexmark have since cottoned on and the
last warranty was only for two years, still I have managed to get the
orignal one replaced.Whenever I exhibit a computer generated print I always
put that they are computer generated printed on whatever @ ??dpi, they know
what they are buying and if they are not sure they can ask.
Traditional prints on handmade paper are great but, short of putting them in
a thermostatically controlled room, over time they will fade the paper will
yellow and/or get mould spots, nothing lasts forever.
I would looovvvvvveeeee to get my hands on a laser printer but cannot the
afford the ink let alone the printer.And Lexmark will not let me have one to
try for a few years.
:-) Patricia


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From: Salsbury <salsbury@forbin.net>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:04:48 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14521] Snake exchange. 

Good morning,

I need to know how many snake prints are to be mailed out yet, and or if
some of you have had mine returned.  I counted them and put them into an
album to prepare them for an exhibit and only have 40 counting mine.  That
leaves 18 unaccounted for.  

The last time someone listed those not recieved, there were not that many
listed.  I am wondering if some had been returned to the sender.

Sue Salsbury
Waterloo, Ia

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From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:27:08 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14522] Re: Snake exchange. 

Sue,
You have made us all nervous...if anyone needs or wants a snake from me let
me know and I will print up a few more. I would feel bad if I missed anyone.
I could slither a few more out if need be.
Barbara
- -----


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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:43:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 14523] Re: Snake exchange. 05/22/2001 11:43:48 AM 

Yes....mine are still "hatching", but you will ALL get one for sure when
they are old enough to travel.....
You can go to my snake site and compare who I got, with who you
got........let me know if I missed anyone from that
list.....(Dimitris & Le Green's snakes are not on display yet....but were
received!)

I count 16 missing in my list.

thanks...Julio


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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [Baren 14524] Re: Snake exchange.- oops -forgot the link... 05/22/2001 11:54:59 AM 

Sorry forgot to include the link to the snakes:

http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/snakes/

thanks...Julio


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From: Sunnffunn@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:14:53 EDT
Subject: [Baren 14525] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1426 


Garth I agree that we must be honest with ourselves and our consumers.  I 
approached this subject because of the talk about Baren exchange prints going 
in folios for museum preservation.  It than becomes an issue that prints last 
thru time to be seen by the next generation.  if it were merely a swap where 
just a friend got work and knew for certain that it was not archival than i 
would have no concerns.  But it seems this group is well ahead of the game in 
quality and integrity and in preserving for the future.  So i became 
concerned that I do the right thing in this area and not cheapen the status 
of the group.  Thank you for a timely reply.  So I will get started on 
printing that little woodblock on archival paper and save the other print for 
matting and selling at an art fair where i can tell people it is cheaper 
because it is not done on archival paper and you will not have it last as 
long that way.
Marilynn


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From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:09:28 -0400
Subject: [Baren 14526] Rice Paste

Thanks for all of those nice people who advised me re; adding water to my
rice paste. I was not sure if it would dilute the adhesiveness too much or
not but it worked out just fine. Also trying the wheat paste that Sharri
suggested.

Speaking of archival. I looked all over town today just to find some paper
that is archival for my computer, as I have to write up a cv and techniques
in a print., which will go on the back of the print. I pride my work enough
that I want it all to be archival. First as a promise to my customers that
the work will not fall apart after they have spent their hard earned money
to enjoy my art work.

A teacher of mine in college said "Your art work is as good as the material
that goes into it".

Although I find nothing wrong in art work that is a learning process and
will not be for sale. Those are the pieces that sometimes go to your friends
and relatives.

My father saved a lot of my pre college work. When he passed on , I looked
through them and they were brittle, yellow and the matts had left their tell
tail marks around the edges of the yellowing paper.
Be good to yourself. Make art on good material, just in case you turn out to
be another Rembrandt in the next couple of centuries!

Jeanne N.

PS
David, your new series is lovely!!!!!


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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:00:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14527] paper charset="iso-8859-1" 

Paper is a beautiful thing. Arguably the single material that has had the
most impact on humanity, paper is much more than a matrix upon which to
squirt some ink. I would suggest to anyone that has not tried a good quality
archival paper to snap up a sheet, even a small square, and _really_ look
and feel this wonderful stuff. Even better, making a sheet or two allows the
artist to really appreciate the simultaneous simplicity and complexity of
the material.
For me, it is not a question of how long my art will last, although that is
a consideration. Yes, I always use acid free papers, matting, backing. But
working with good archival papers is much more than that. I want the best
possible materials for the task at hand. There is no comparison, not even a
close call, on the way good paper behaves when printmaking. There is ink
absorption, crispness of line, toughness of fiber, resistance to creasing,
resiliency under necessary dampness, to name just a few of the qualities
that define a good paper.
And the variety! Oh my goodness, if I live a hundred years I will still not
have tried every paper that deserves to be tried. Do not cheat yourself by
using "whatever is at hand." If you love the craft, love the materials, and
they will in turn reward you with infinite pleasure.
I create an image--it has come from the bowels of my deepest experience. I
carefully try to capture the feeling, the thought or concept, simple or
complex, the fleeing essence of what I have created. I transfer this part of
my soul to a block of wood. The chisels take over, they modify, the music
takes over and I carve for hours, every line a deliberate decision, every
dark defined by light, every light will become pure paper. Then I print, by
hand or press, each print strives to be a perfect print, each ink pass a
delight, each circle of the baren an urgent command to the block to give up
the image and lovingly transfer it to...the paper. The paper is the final
resting place for the image. I want it to last forever. To use a cheap paper
would be to insult the entire process, and deprive myself of the ultimate
experience.
Use a cheap paper as a gift to my closest family and friends and good paper
to exchange for some stranger's money? This really does not make sense to
me, but as always, to each his/her own.

Prints belong on paper, or perhaps more accurately, real prints belong on
real paper. That would, in my opinion, include digital prints, an art form
in their own right.
Reproductions...those I know nothing about.

Health to all,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From: Studio Dalwood <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:53:27 +1000
Subject: [Baren 14528] Archival 

Just a quick point.

If you use non-archival paper as opposed to archival paper
when producing a print, the support on which the image rests
will not have the same life span in each case. Therefore, to
be fair to your purchasers, this should be noted on the
print. Accordingly, the products you have produced will not
have the same intrinsic value and the prices should be
adjusted to reflect this. Its also about protecting yourself
against future complaints and bad publicity.

I heard a story (urban legend?) of someone who purchased a
very expensive encaustic painting and left it in the sun on
the back seat of their very expensive car. You can imagine
the result! Wish I could remember the details, I think it
eventuated in an also very expensive law suit against the
gallery who made the sale. Sounds like the sort of thing
that would happen in New York, doesnt it? Any one know the
case?

Josephine

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From: b.patera@att.net
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:38:50 +0000
Subject: [Baren 14529] archival/non-archival 

All this talk of archival vs non-archival, hand pulled 
vs computer printout is, I guess, fairly relevant to me. 
I am currently experimenting with computer prints 
(archival paper but HP Deskjet672C inks) used as chine 
colle'd pieces in other handpulled prints.

In  most cases I really like what is happening in the 
prints. There have been a few failures but these have 
been with the design not the materials. Have been 
testing the inks.... the primitive, leave in the sun, 
one half covered test. It's been almost a year now and I 
see no sign of fading....but plan to give it another 
year as I live in Washington State.

This brings me to a couple of questions I've been 
meaning to ask for a long time. What is archival??? What 
does it mean in terms of time..... 25 yrs., 100yrs., 
500yrs.???? And how long does pigment have to last to be 
considered permanent? Are we talking about lasting a 
lifetime or are we talking about a half-life of 5000 
years?

Barbara P.



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From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:33:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14530] Re: archival/non-archival 

Hi Barbara,
Archival means it will last 100 years with no visible change in the print or
the paper when properly stored. This means away from direct light and in
controlled temperatures. Dr Gilkey at the Portland Art Museum said work
stored in this manner would probably last 1000 years, not 100, so I guess
that will be a lot longer than any of us or our collectors will care. Some
of those Japanese prints are 300-400 years old and still look pretty good
and I do not think that paper was rag or stored away from light and in
controlled temperatures, but it must have been pretty strong.
Sure was nice today, about 90 degrees here. Pretty warm for so early in the
year....probably will drop 20 degrees and rain tomorrow. That is the Pacific
NW  for you.
Barbara




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From: barebonesart <barebonesart@home.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:02:35 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14531] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427 

For a virtual course try www.worldprintmers.com.  They have had a virtual
course in screen printing going on for quite some time. I've forgotten the
artist, but I'm sure there will either be information on the site as to how
to contact him, or Mike Booth would know. He is the webmaster (I think
that's what he's called!) While you're there check out some of the "digital
artists" and what they're doing with their computers - pretty awesome.

Marilynn, I'm afraid I am wholeheartedly in Garth's corner on this issue of
value. With all the beautiful archival papers available today, I cannot
understand anyone not being able to find one that would serve their purpose.
For that matter, you could make your own to your own specifications - and
make it archival.
Sharri




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From: "Kinzua" <Kinzua@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:30:56 -0400
Subject: [Baren 14532] Re:   Baren Digest v15 #1427 charset="Windows-1252" 


Good for you, Dan.  Thanks also to all who lent their advice on having a
friend buy a piece to donate to a museum, or just donating it outright
myself.  I've had more ups and downs than a rollycoaster on this one and it
still isn't a done deal, but at least I know what to do if they take a
piece.
Karen
NYC
http://homepages.msn.com/timessquare/kfberkenfeld/



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From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:38:54 EDT
Subject: [Baren 14533] Re: Baren Digest v15 #1427 

On paper making. I have destroyed a number of blocks on amateur hand made 
paper. In press printed blocks the lumps will ding a block on a large run it 
will look like it is snowing. If you are hand pulling it the effect might 
look like a hickey in the ink but it would be in the paper.  I feel it takes 
as long to learn how to be a professional paper maker as it takes to be a 
printer.  This is true esp on Kozo.  Cotton linter paper is easy and 
relatively lump free but does not have much character.  I have made paper but 
just find it easier to buy the stuff.  Akio's is just a bus ride away for the 
finest selection of Japanese papers (note I don't call them rice paper don't 
understand why they are called that as no rice is used in there production) 
and western papers are easy to get as well.

    I think my life expectancy would be much shorter if I made hand made 
paper at home anyway as the wood chips from my wood cutting drive my family 
nuts the mess from paper making would start WW3.

John of the furry press

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End of Baren Digest v15 #1428
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