Baren Digest               Thursday, 10 May 2001       Volume 15 : Number 1416


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 22:16:08 +0900
Subject: [Baren 14404] Process photos ... 

A year or so ago, I put up a set of scans taken during the process of
printing one of my 'surimono' prints. People seemed to enjoy 'watching'
along as I worked on that print, so this week I'll be doing the same
thing with my current print.

The first two images of what should be around 14 or 15 colours are now
ready:

http://woodblock.com/surimono/process/process_frame.html

I'm not sure exactly how long this will take; some days may see updating
of two or three steps, some days perhaps none (I'll be off Friday, for
example). 

Anyway, I hope some of you will enjoy it ...

Dave


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:11:36 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14405] inks, collabs charset="iso-8859-1" 

On inks:
My preferred method is to invest in plastic containers with screw tops or
small tupperware. The ink comes in those blasted cans, I scoop out the
freshly shipped ink and transfer to the plastic container. I use water on
top. I have never had my ink skin that way.

A second preferred method is to leave the paper cover in place (this works
best with Rembrandt inks, which are creamier and come capped with thicker
wax paper). I lift half the thing and scoop out ink leaving a flat surface;
if I need more ink I lift the other half and do the same. When laying down
the paper on the ink I smooth it down over the ink.

IMHO, replacing the papers wastes ink, as each time the paper takes some ink
with it, but to each his/her own. The plastic container/water method works
absolutely painlessly for me. One advantage over the cartridges and/or tubes
is that I can replace ink to the can if I don't use the whole thing. For
mixed inks (mixed with additives or color mixes) I use empty tubes, or
smaller plastic containers down to and including photo-film cartridges. A
great cheap source of these containers are drugstores who carry them in
their make-up departments, for what I dunno.

On collaborations:
I collaborated once with Daryl DePry, another of the quiet Baren members, on
a 4' x 8' print. I would guess if we would have had a couple more
printmakers to help with the printing that would have been fine too. It was
a great experience and may do it again sometime, perhaps with some Bareners
in the form of a Vegas annual workshop? :-)
I think the modern printmaker is more of a "processist" than the traditional
Japanese artist or printmakers in the past. For me, going at it alone has
little to do with ego or desire for control, more with the blissful
enjoyment that the process brings. As I work without much preparation and
forethought, there are many changes that happen during the cutting and
printing phase. I have told a friend before that I think printmaking is (for
me) much more than merely reproducing a drawing or painting. It is an art in
itself, a process that brings its own voice into the final oeuvre.
This, of course, is much different than the traditional Japanese division of
labor.
I have thought lately, of getting some help to print editions of some of my
prints, but the thought remains just that. I want to get my own fingernails
dirty. I want to have the freedom to tear the paper, ink the slab, add a
little umber, change colors in mid-run, and make a roller drawing on
blotting paper as I clean the slab. I simply love printmaking, all of it.
Were I to get rich and famous doing this, would I resort to designing my
prints and employing one of the fine printmaking studios in the US to finish
my editions? Hmmmm, I'm not losing any sleep over that particular question
right this moment ;-)

Health to all, happy printing!
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: "bemason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:41:02 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14406] Ink control

Like Maria, I save ink in small round containers from the drug store, I also
have no idea what people do with these containers if they are not storing
ink. I always mark on the top with a piece of tape what is in the ink. I
cannot emphasize this enough! It can ruin your work to have the wrong ink
additive in your ink for the process you are working with.

I also use contact paper. If you take a rectangular piece of clear contact
paper and drop your ink into the middle of it and fold the contact paper
over, getting all the air out, you can save the ink a long, long time. You
can write on the contact paper package with a sharpie pen so you know what
is in the ink and to open just nip off a corner with sissors, closing it
back up with tape. This is an excellent way to keep ink for an edition, as
it is so easy to mark it.

If I need to leave ink out for a few days, I put it in a pile and cover it
with saran wrap. This keeps the air off for a week or so.

I have no problem with the paper skins, I just remove them and scrap the ink
off the paper and then use a new skin. I understand some people make little
circles of mylar that they use for this and that they also work well. I
never put water in my ink, it just seems like something I wouldn't want to
do, but I know it also works as it keeps the air away from the surface of
the ink. Water will eventually evaporate so is not good for long term
storage. I have some inks I have had for years, colors I don't use often. I
have only had one can totally dry up and the ink seemed to be sideways in
the can, so must have shifted in shipping or storage.

If you have trouble getting the lids off the cans, coat the inside of the
lid with oil, this helps it not to stick. I have not used tubes  but this
sounds good also as long as you can be sure all the air is out of the ink.

Of course we could all switch to Hanga and this discussion would be
unnecessary!
Have a great day,
Best to all,
Barbara






------------------------------

From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:01:01 EDT
Subject: [Baren 14407] hanga books 

Marco, I have to say that Baren has a bunch of printing books that you can 
print right out, and they won't cost you a dime!  Perhaps you've checked 
these out already, just thought I should mention this possibility, I haven't 
been to this part of the Baren site for a while but the Yoshida book may even 
be there.
happy printing!
Sarah

------------------------------

From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:35:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 14408] Inks charset="iso-8859-1" 

my, how the e mail piles up when you are away or the telephone is down,
which mine was for over one week.

Interesting about storage of inks.
 I was about to reiterate what Barbara was saying about Saran wrap.

When I am in the middle of a run and the time comes to go home.
 I just scoop the ink in a pile, and put Saran wrap on top and gently prod
the wrap down all the way around.
In the morning , or over the week end, when I come back to the studio the
ink is still workable.
 When I close my can of paint, I spray it with Anti Skin from Daniel Smith,
then I place a sheet of Saran Wrap over the top of the can and put the lid
back on over the Saran Wrap.
 It seems to work fine for me.

Jeanne N.



------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:36:39 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14409] licensing charset="iso-8859-1" 

I am about to engage in talks for a commission to illustrate an arboretum's
newsletter and design a logo, images, brochure illustrations and such
things. I need advice on licensing my images, how much to charge for a new
image versus existing images, etc. etc. If you have any experience in this
type of arrangement could you contact me off list please.

maria@mariarango.com
TIA!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: "Bill H Ritchie Jr" <ritchie@seanet.com>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:37:28 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14410] Collaboration and ink in cans charset="iso-8859-1" charset="iso-8859-1" 

If I understand you correctly, Michelle Morrell, I really LIKE what you
said:

"This may seem naive, Gary, but it seems if all these people making a
print in a collaboration,  and especially showing their fine skills at
their craft, all names should be on the final piece like when a film
shows the credits at the end."

"I am more impressed by his crew than Dore.  I guess
I have the same opinion of Dale Chihualy's crew."

I LIKE it because, for one thing, I am impressed by Dale Chihuly's crew,
too.
For another thing, the comparison to film is apt.

(By the way, where did that word 'apt' come from? Is it a shorthand way of
saying
APPROPRIATE? Is there a link between apt and appropriate in the sense we've
been
reading about it on this list? Appropriating other peoples' stuff? makes
wonder.

Anyhoo--there's a story about someone rushing into a famous architect's
office crying out,
"Lindbergh has landed!" and the old famous architect showed no reaction.
"Aren't you excited?"
said the other.

"No. Anyone can do something like fly across the Atlantic alone. It's not a
big deal to do that
kind of thing, of that fantastic kind, alone. When you hear about a
committee doing it, THEN
I'll be impressed."

It's like that in movie making, I bet. Also at Pilchuck, when Chihuly was
getting the thing off the
ground. I live 50 miles south of it, so there are still a lot of stories
about the old days when it was
just a gas furnace out in the woods and several glass-blowing nuts staying
with it.

Getting a group of highly individualistic creative types to agree long
enough to sustain a project to some
magnitude of importance IS a bigger job, you might think, than one person
going off alone and coming back
dragging a mastodon.

My personal opinion is that among all the kinds of people who like
printmaking there is more likelihood of
something great and good coming along than, say, a sister art like painting
or drawing. I'm working alone
a lot, but I can always get someone who likes printmaking (a publisher, a
printer, a paper maker, a retailer, etc.)
to talk about the virtues and vices of collaboration.

Yes, I really like what you said, Michelle Morrell.

Bill H. Ritchie, Jr
500 Aloha #105
Seattle WA 98109

(206) 285-0658
<http://www.myartpatron.com>


------------------------------

From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:54:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 14411] Re: hanga books 

Hello-
Since some folks are asking about hanga books, I thought that I'd give my
opinion of the ones I am most aquainted with. The top 10 hanga
instructional books that I own (in order of personal preference) are:

(1) Hiroshi Yoshida's "Japanese Wood-Block Printing"- 1939 Very, very rare
and expensive- now priced over $1500 in bookstores!(luckily in Baren's
Encyclopedia
<woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_16/011_16_frame.html>). This and
his son's below are far and away the best IMO.

(2) Toshi Yoshida's "Japanese Print-Making..." 1966- includes a lot of
traditional and modern techniques. Scarce, expensive ($400+), but worth it.
Most large libraries carry a copy. There is a companion book of
hand-printed samples entitled "Varieties...", but isn't worth the going
price- (around $900).

(3) K. Moore's "Moku Hanga"- good introduction. Not too scarce, pretty
cheap- around $25.

(4) T. Tokuriki's "Japanese Woodblock Primer" 1970- An OK beginning source.
Easy to locate and cheap!

(5) U. Azechi's "Japanese Prints..." around $50 (good photo set-by-steps).

(6) F. Morley Fletcher's "Woodblock Printing..." 1916- interesting and mod.
priced (in Baren's Encyclopedia
<woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_03/011_03_frame.html>)

(7) W. J. Phillips' "The Technique of the Color Wood-cut" 1926- OK, expensive.

(8) John Platt's "Color Woodcuts" (in Baren's Encyclopedia
<woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_09/011_09_frame.html>) 1948- good
artist.

(9) Alan Seaby's "Colour Printing ..." 1925- (in Baren's Encyclopdia
<woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_05/011_05_frame.html>

(10) T. Tokuriki's "Woodblock Printmaking" 1968- a brief survey, el cheapo!

I've got a few other books in my collection- a total of 20 hanga-related
how-to's (not as much as Dave mind you!). I'd be happy to review any of
these before you plunk down your hard-earned cash.

- -John A.



------------------------------

From: "Philip Smith" <SmithArt@Pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:44:52 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14412] tools

I just got my new Japan Woodworker catalog in today. Some nice tools to =
be sure. Check them out at www.japanwoodworker.com . Order a catalog.
Philip
Hammond,OR
USA=20


------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:51:04 EDT
Subject: [Baren 14413] Re: Ink control 

On the use of ink   i don't save it as i print all  my eddition at one time   
keeps the variables undercontrol.   I like the ink cartage system for my 
studio  it seems to keep for me better but as there is a number of ways to do 
it. what ever works for you. 
I would not recamond putting ink back into the can as it might have 
conditioners or dust and dirt and would thus contamate the whole can.  
Besides the only ink i don't add things to is black    almost never print 
colored ink the way it is sold so i could not put that backi in any case.   
the weather conditions might require adding dryer or other conditioners that 
i would not need later any way.   If you need to save it because you did not 
finish an edition   plastic bages or serran wrap work well for a short time.  
If i saved it i would soon have a room full of it.  And this would give my 
wife an excuse to say i was full of it.

Maria it would depend if you used there ideas or yours    if useing theres 
you are just giving them your labor (as skilled as it is)   If you are 
desingn it it would depend on how they are paying you    one use or full 
ownership of the idea.

john of the furry press

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:53:25 -0500
Subject: [Baren 14414] Re: Process photos ... 05/09/2001 04:53:14 PM 

As always, David's insight into traditional hanga technique is full of mini
lessons.  A quick peek into his latest print project and I came away with
new found information.

http://woodblock.com/surimono/process/process_frame.html

1. Just last night I was having trouble with my corners...don't know if the
paper was too moist or what..but those little pesky
corners just did not want to sit nicely into my kento marks....they kept
bending on me & flapping...had to flip the paper around again & again....I
would have never thought of using nail polish to strengthen them and to
prevent registration problems in the following blocks.

2. These technique of toning the main block area to "washout" some of the
white off the paper & to flatten it to receive the delicate
printing....could have use it a few nights ago...the current print I am
working on needed a large area of light blue....perhaps the paper, pigment
& baren combination I used was not best....and it was very hard to cover
the large area evenly....even after a second impression...even now...cause
of the large area...the color looks somewhat blotted...
perhaps this toning technique could have eliminated the problem.

thanks, again !...Julio
t


------------------------------

From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying@Maineline.net>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 18:04:23 -0700
Subject: [Baren 14415] van son ink-rubber or oil base 

hello to all    concerning Van Son inks      Patricia  (and Nik Seminoff of
univ of Saskatchewan)  have commented on using the RUBBER BASE  ink and
liking them     i have been using the OIL BASE PLUS    so now wonder what is
the difference between them    my seller  -Northeastern Graphics in Portland
Maine,  tells me that the rubber is for "uncoated stock"   and wont print on
very non-porous surfaces   also- that it doesnt skin in the can  is this
true?!      i had the same experience as  Josephine     in that when the new
transparent white came     i opened it to find that the paper was not
touching all around the outer edge of the can  and that ink was all skinned
over    so i had wasted ink right away before even starting
  the oil base i've been using will print on ANYTHING  literally    can
anyone tell me more about rubber base and why you chose it instead of oil
base ?    i will also query Nik abouth this and report back      i have
received my new whites and have been experimenting with the transparent- i
like it    works well with my  other inks of course   since its the same
base now...gillyin  machias maine usa

------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:45:03 +0900
Subject: [Baren 14416] Re: Process photos ... 

Julio wrote:
> I would have never thought of using nail polish to 
> strengthen them and to prevent registration problems 
> in the following blocks.

I hope I didn't leave the impression that _I_ thought of it! In the old
days, it seems that they used 'urushi' (Japanese lacquer) for this, and
you can sometimes see the dark brown stains in the corner and up the
side of old prints.

I don't like urushi though - it's apparently quite poisonous - so I
'switched' to using clear nail polish. Works great ...


> ...and it was very hard to cover
> the large area evenly....even after a second impression...even now...cause
> of the large area...the color looks somewhat blotted...
> perhaps this toning technique could have eliminated the problem.

I'll have to go back and update that page - because this is yet a _4th_
reason for doing that beta-ban impression.

Modern paper really is horribly rough on the top surface compared to
stuff from the 'good old days', and it is sometimes very difficult to
get smooth impressions. On any wide area, all modern printers now have
to resort to using multiple impressions using thinner pigment. Doing
this beta-ban across the entire surface of the block means that
'double-impression' won't be required for most of the colours (although
it will still probably be necessary for the background).

Dave


------------------------------

From: Studio Dalwood <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:16:56 +1000
Subject: [Baren 14417] Graphic Chemical Inks 

Dean said

Josephine -
I guess I'm a little confused. 

Not to worry Dean, that will be from my expression, not your
understanding.


The Bismark Brown is a relief ink and
the 
Sepia is an etching ink. I'm not sure why one was
substituted for the
other, 
but I'm sure that we didn't do it. Graphic Chemical never
substitutes
inks, 
unless the customer has asked for it to happen. It would
certainly
explain 
the difference in handling.

I asked for the hue 'sepia' in relief ink - they sent me
'bismark' instead. I cant remember if they said it was
because you didnt make relief in sepia, or whether they were
out of stock. I was comparing the handling of black, bismark
and extender inks in relief inks. Not intaglio. 

Optimum drying conditions, huh? I'm not sure I have an
answer for
that 
extremely high or extremely low humidity will cause the ink
to dry
more 
rapidly or more slowly.

Does Graphic Chemicals put out any literature on this and on
toxicity etc that I can obtain?



 As far as whether it's cheaper to purchase
direct, 
that's a tough call. The ink costs are all listed on the web
site for
reference, and on top of that you've got shipping (about $20
US for
the first 
two pounds and about $3.00 US per pound after that for air
parcel
post) and 
potentially customs charges.

I take your point.

 I would suggest that you look to other 
distributors in Australia. There are several, but
unfortunately our
computers 
at work are down right now. The ones that come off the top
of my head
include:
                         MES 
                         Heidelberg - both in Melbourne
                         Premier - Adelaide
                         Jackson - Perth
       I know there is one in Queensland or somewhere up
North, but
the ame 
escapes me right now.

I bought by ink from MES 

Thanks Dean.

Patricia, I've tried the Van Son inks, but dont have the
supplier details.

Jospehine

------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:23:43 EDT
Subject: [Baren 14418] Re: van son ink-rubber or oil base 

i have used both reg. oil based and the Van San rubberbased at first I was 
told not to use them together.  Was told the rubberbased ink was for the c & 
p press we had and the oil based litho ink was for the vandercook proofing 
press.  An expert letterpress printer came to our school and put those  myths 
to rest.  I had started using the rubber based inks mixed with regular oil 
based ink before out of necessity due to a shortage of one of the inks in 
needed.  They are both oil based ink the so called rubber based ink has other 
ingredients but they are a very small portion of the whole.  The viscosity is 
different but they can be mixed together on the ink slab.  I prefer the 
regular oil based because I think the pigment is a little bit denser.   But 
you should work it up on the ink slab anyway.  When you are printing type on 
a vandercook you will want a stiffer viscosity than with wood cuts or wood 
engraving. stiffest for type and photo etched plates, next stiffest for wood 
engraving and less for wood cuts.  You can print all of them together but to 
do it in the best manner you should print them separately.

john of the furry press

------------------------------

From: "Patricia" <patricia26@optushome.com.au>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:24:03 +1000
Subject: [Baren 14419] Re: Ink control charset="iso-8859-1" 

John, you don't know what you are missing. I always add some blue, it seems
to make a denser black.
:-) Patricia.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <FurryPressII@aol.com>
To: <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 4:51 AM
Subject: [Baren 14413] Re: Ink control


> the only ink i don't add things to is black.


------------------------------

From: "diana lakes"<dianaspalette@powercom.net>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:28:24 +500
Subject: [none]

Hi Carol,
I really enjoyed the web site you recommended (fiorillo) yesterday.  There is
sooo much wonderful information there.  Thank you!
Diana Lakes
http://www.powercom.net

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest v15 #1416
*****************************