Baren Digest              Sunday, 10 December 2000      Volume 13 : Number 1240


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From: owner-baren
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:06:12 -0800
Subject: [Baren 12405] Re: Paper 

> Jeanne Norman Chase wrote:
>
> > I would like to know the best paper for woodblock prints (with oil based
> > ink) and the best paper for wood engraving. Any advice would be welcome.
> <snip>
>
> Hey...I'd love to have opinions/votes on what the best paper is for
woodblock
> prints with oil based ink, too!
> Carolyn

Specific papers are described here:
http://www.1000woodcuts.com/studio/method.html
scroll down to Paper.

As far as what the best paper for woodcuts with oil based inks, I think is a
matter of style and preference. You are looking for a paper that "likes" the
ink, Arches 88 being the best Western example; try a sheet or two and see
what I mean. Arches 88 absorbs the ink yet has a smooth surface so that it
leaves a nice crisp impression. Japanese papers "like" the ink a lot! and
they are thinner and stronger than Western papers, although 88 and BFK can
take a lot of abuse from a Southwestern baren. The Japanese papers that
stand out in my mind as my favorites are Okawara and Kitakata (tannish) and
Hosho, of course, always Hosho. I leave papers unsized for work with oil
based inks, they seem to work better that way for me.
If you are planning on printing tons of layers of ink, better stick with
Arches 88 or Magnani Incisioni, in white, or Magnani Pescia in blue and
cream. Those particular papers will take as much ink as you can put on
there, sort of.
Wood engravings are a different animal, here you are looking for the
smoothest surface possible and a thinner paper because you will deal with a
much thinner layer of ink. None of the above papers will give the best
results because they are all too "spongy" and "fuzzy." Try Masa for proofing
the engravings and as a cheaper test paper. The English plate finish papers
are the best for engravings, as are some of the Japanese thinner sized
papers.
Jeanne, you are absolutely right, those little samples only go so far in
terms of telling how the paper will behave. Better to buy a sampler of full
sheets and check them out. Daniel Smith has a good 'printmaker's sampler" of
full sheets that is worth getting.

I hope this helps, I will finish those paper pages one of these centuries.
Health to all,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango, Printmaker
Las Vegas  Nevada  USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><>

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 22:12:28 +0900
Subject: [Baren 12406] Re: John Platt ... 

Barbara wrote:
> John Platt sure changed his style in the middle
> of his career, I wonder if it was economically driven? 

You're referring to his abandonment of outlines ...  This
is indeed most interesting. Although many of his early
prints were made in exactly the same way as traditional
Japanese prints - with a key outline followed by colour
blocks - he came to think that this wasn't necessary.

Here's a small quote from his book on printmaking:

> For both traditional and practical reasons the Japanese
> almost invariably relied upon the use of line in their
> designs. Their early prints were translations of
> brush-made line drawings in Chinese ink, so a tradition of
> line treatment remained. Moreover the key-line was a
> technical necessity in the production of their prints to
> ensure that the component parts of a colour-print designed
> by one artist, but cut by several hands, should register
> when assembled in the final print. Neither of these
> conditions applies to us to-day. We do not inherit their
> tradition of line treatment, nor is a key-line technically
> necessary when the artist cuts his own designs. However,
> as an expressive and varied line is readily obtained, it
> is appropriate for it to form part of the design,
> according to the subject arid treatment. It is too
> valuable a resource to be neglected and the artist should
> make himself practically acquainted with its use. The line
> may be a main element in the design, or no more than a few
> accents of drawing, but whichever it is, the line block
> should never be a thing complete in itself; it must leave
> a due share of the design to be expressed by the
> subsequent blocks or either it or they will appear redundant.

(The complete text of his book is in the Encyclopedia Library section).

It had not been my intention to publicize the new Platt
website until I had all the colour images ready (photos
are being sent to me from England), but now that it's open
... please take a visit.  My favourite is the 'Stride',
but there are lots of very interesting designs there.

http://www.woodblock.com/platt

Dave

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From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:20:42 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12407] Re: Exchange 7 Exhibition 

Greg

I can send you , your # 7 Baren package, sans one VERY LATE straggler. Then
you can go ahead with your show. That is very nice of you to do that for the
group.
When I do get the last one, then I will roll it in a tub and send it.

OK?

Jeanne and Dan

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From: "eli griggs" <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:29:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12408] Re: using ball bearing barens 

Hi There:

Carolyn, 

    I will send details soon.

cheers,

Eli Griggs
Charlotte N.C.
USA

> I'd love to get detailed instructions on making this baren you described!

------------------------------

From: "eli griggs" <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 11:12:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12409] Re: Paper 

Hi there:

Kitakata gets my vote, hands down.

It is inexpensive, readily available and tears nicely.

I have been using Kitakata, both damp softened and dry, with oil inks.  I
hand print, and use a barrier sheet when using a ball-bearing baren.  So far
I haven't found much about this paper not to like, unless you count the fact
that my local Binders art store charges twice as much for it as most
sources.

> Jeanne Norman Chase wrote:
>
> > I would like to know the best paper for woodblock prints (with oil based
> > ink) and the best paper for wood engraving. Any advice would be welcome.
> <snip>
>
> Hey...I'd love to have opinions/votes on what the best paper is for
woodblock
> prints with oil based ink, too!
> Carolyn
>

------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:30 PST
Subject: [Baren 12410] Archives & apologies 

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the glitches that are slipping through - weird line lengths, posts with the
wrong e-mail in the "from" column, etc. Some of these things seem to have a mind
of 
their own! I hope to have it all ironed out in the next few days. Thanks for all the
help, Dave!

...............

On the subject of paper - which comes up quite frequently - lovely stuff isn't it?
There are several discussions in the archives of http://barenforum.org/ Just go to
the listing for the year 2000, and look for "paper" in the subject line. Thanks 
to John Amoss for all the archiving work! Don't miss Maria's pages on paper
 http://www.1000woodcuts.com/studio/method.html 
She gives you 'down & dirty' details that you won't find anywhere else on the web!
 
For those of you looking for detailed instruction on printing by the hanga method,
take a look in the library of http://woodblock.com  (Dave's personal web site)
My personal favorite there is Hiroshi Yoshida's book: "The Making of Japanese 
Woodblock Prints" You can download the whole book (one section at a time) and 
read it at your leisure. Since this book is *really* hard to find (and *very* 
espensive when you do find it) this is a real treasure. 

...................

Welcome to all of the new subscribers! I hope you enjoy Baren as much as the rest
of us do.

Wanda

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From: GWohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12411] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1239 

> Hey...I'd love to have opinions/votes on what the best paper is for woodblock
> prints with oil based ink, too!

I'll bet you will get as many answers as there are artists, Carolyn.  I
love kitakata because of its 
color and because I can see through it when I print.  I like black ink
on it particularly.  

As for posture, when I was doing my first hanga print at home I found
standing and having a board slanting away from me kept my arms and
wrists on a straighter line.  That worked for me but I guess everyone is
different.  It was a real makeshift thing I had put together but I could
reach everything I needed to reach and it seemed the job went very fast.
 I'll always thank Graham for showing us how to hold the baren so as not
to get blisters.  When I felt one coming when at first I was printing
alone at home,  I heard that little voice in my head of Graham warning
me about the blisters I would get and immediately corrected my hand
position.    I would never print sitting down.  I don't paint sitting
either.  I will sit to carve, but I even prefer to stand for that.  To
sit the way Dave does would just kill me through the legs and knee
joints.  My leverage is so different from a lot of people's too because
of limbs being longer from the hip to the knee than from the knee to the
ankle.  Anyway, it causes problems, and Maria thank you for the lesson
on difference in bodies, genderwise and other.  

* * *
I have mentioned this on Print Australia, but I will mention it here
because there is a chance some of the Baren exchange prints would be
included.  The Geauga Park District nature center
(The Myer's Center)  is putting together its calendar of exhibits for
the year 2002 (yes, it's really that far ahead) and I was asked to show
the Sacred Tree Prints, but I'm taking my portfolios of the baren
exchange prints to show the coordinator of the show because I believe
there are a number of those prints that would be very nice to show along
with the Sacred Tree prints.  If any of you from past exchanges think
yours might qualify as a nature print and DON'T want it included, let me
know, otherwise I'll go ahead and present them to the Park District with
the Sacred Tree prints with the hope they may be used.

* * *
Jennifer asked:
> What are the advantages to oil
> based inks? 

They take longer to dry and therefore do not stick to the board while
you are still working
(such as re-inking the board).  I have tried both waterbased inks and
oil, and prefer oil.  It looks better, too.  The color seems richer.  

> Do I need to dampen my paper?

I don't but there are those who do and who say it helps the ink to be
transferred to the paper more easily.

> Am I wasting my money on "block printing ink"? 
I use block printing ink, but I know some people use oil paints.  I've
tried them to no good avail.  I like Daniel Smith block printing inks. 
There are others out there too.  Check some of the suppliers at:
http://woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/007_04/007_04_frame.html  

> Do i need to "seal" my blocks with varnish or whatever? What are the
> advantages of this?

This makes it easier to cut the lines, I think.  I've done it both ways,
and I find the varnished ones (lightly varnished 50 percent solvent with
50 percent varnish) best for cutting.  They seem stronger for linework. 
I don't know if it's necessary on all woods, but I use poplar.  Maybe
the people who use cherry can tell you more.

Gayle

------------------------------

From: Sunnffunn@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:34:51 EST
Subject: [Baren 12412] Re: Paper 

Thank you so much for this site.  I realize these comments are not about 
carving or sending a new site.  But, I joined Baren to learn about woodblock 
carving, having only done linoleum block.  This site and David the sites you 
have sent links out to are very helpful.  i am learning about barens, about 
papers, about wood types, about where to get supplies and all sorts of 
valuable information.  i have begun printing out paper and made a folder of 
information.  So I am suggesting to new members, like me, that they go to the 
links supplied and glean this information.  You are a very caring, sharing 
and invaluable group of artists.
Marilynn

------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:06:12 -0800
Subject: [Baren 12413] A site for sore eyes..... 

Just kidding. It just popped into my head. :-) I have been drawing & carving all morning,
that puts me in a good mood. So you have to suffer with it.

Someone posted a web addy over on PrintAustralia that was pretty interesting:

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/modot/printmakingindex.html

There was no name on the pages, so I sent an e-mail. To make a long story short -
the 
web site is written & maintained by Dan - one of the 6 original members of Baren.
I 
hope that Dan will find the time to re-join Baren. A great resource for anyone.

Dave mentioned the pages Dan had back then, and they are still there. So, take a look,
you might find something you need.

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/modot/


Wanda

------------------------------

From: "jerelee" <jerelee@main.nc.us>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:06:59 -0600
Subject: [Baren 12414] Re: Archives & apologies 

> My personal favorite there is Hiroshi Yoshida's book: "The Making ofJapanese
> Woodblock Prints" You can download the whole book (one section at a time)and
> read it at your leisure. Since this book is *really* hard to find (and*very*
> espensive when you do find it) this is a real treasure.

Thanks Wanda for mentioning Yoshida's
book. Was just about to inquire about purchasing an up to date book on
hanga. I'll just download many pages.

Are there any more current books about Japanese woodblock print I could
purchase? The feel of a book is so nice.

A wonderful treat awaited me as I walked up the road to my mailbox. A snake!
Thanks Sarah from NYC.  Jerelee

------------------------------

From: "jerelee" <jerelee@main.nc.us>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:14:00 -0600
Subject: [Baren 12415] cleaning up 

I've never printed oil based inks on wood, only linoleum. How do I clean the
wood afterwards?  I prefer to print with water colors because they're
nontoxic so I
have tons of ink  left over from Graphic Chemical Co. Is there anyone who
would want to barter my never used ink for paper, a baren, eqipment,etc?
Jerelee

------------------------------

From: "eli griggs" <eli.griggs@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:35:08 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12416] oil relief tips 

Hi there:

Does anyone out there have any tips dealing with 'touching up' woodcut oil
prints?  I am using black relief ink, and would like to touch up small areas
where the black is not quite all there.  I had thought of trying a
tortillion with a bit of ink on it, but before I do anything, I'd like to
hear from more experienced printers.

Tips for minimising small points of ink, in the wrong areas, are also
welcome.

Eli Griggs
Charlotte N.C.
USA

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 17:57:31 -0600
Subject: [Baren 12417] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1239 

At 10:00 PM 12/09/2000 +0900, Jennifer Belvel wrote:
>1. I've been using Speedball waterbased ink. What are the advantages to oil
>based inks? I already know that the waterbased inks are drying way to fast
>for me.
>2. Am I wasting my money on "block printing ink"? Are watercolors fine to
>use and if so, do I need to add something else to it (there was a reference
>to rice paste)
>2. Do I need to dampen my paper?
>3. Do i need to "seal" my blocks with varnish or whatever? What are the
>advantages of this?
>
>I think I'm going to try Hosho and mulberry paper at first.

Welcome, Jennifer!  I'm sure you'll hear from some more 
authoritative printers than I, but here are my two cents:

Hanga (Japanese wood-block print) techniques are different
from oil  techniques...  The Speedball waterbased inks are
intended to perform  similarly to oil based inks, and are
not ideal for Hanga.  I use  watercolors in tubes for my
prints -- usually Winsor & Newton brand --  better quality
(usually more expensive) performs better.  The colors can
be  re-wet with no problem when they dry and come with
appropriate binder, so  you can print with almost no waste
if you like.  The color is applied to  the damp block in
tiny dabs (along with a bit of rice paste if desired
- --  the rice paste 'smooths' the color on the paper, sort
of and produces less  'goma-zuri' or graininess) and then
brushed out.  Water control is the  single most important
and difficult skill in printing hanga-style.  Almost  all
beginners print way too wet.  Block too wet, ink too wet,
brushes too  wet, paper too wet.  Experience and trial and
error will help.  The paper  is dampened, but not like for
oil printing -- I just barely mist every  other sheet and
stack 'em in barely misted newsprint over night in a 
plastic bag and weighted with a board to keep everything
in contact so  humidity can travel equally throughout --
in the morning, the paper  shouldn't feel wet at all, just
kind-of humid...  Hosho and mulberry paper  are excellent
choices for starting out -- they look and feel different,
and  take the ink differently and well.  After those two,
you might consider  'Iyo Glaze' - a paper like hosho, but
'harder' brighter, and more likely to  produce a pleasing
sort of goma-zuri, and my current favorite, 'Gampi'  which
is thick, soft, luxurious, (expensive), with a silky
surface.  Check  out the http://barenforum.org/ page --
especially the encyclopedia for  excellent and much more
complete descriptions and illustrations -- April,  Dave,
and Graham, among otheres, seem to freely give the most
knowledgeable  and articulate instruction and advice --
Good Luck!

Mike Lyon
mikelyon@mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com


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End of Baren Digest V13 #1240
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