Baren Digest              Sunday, 5 November 2000      Volume 13 : Number 1205


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From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:05:50 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11980] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1203 

At 08:56 PM 11/3/00 -0800, Sharri wrote:
>Here's a wonderful quote I ran across today - "Most artists don't daydream
>about making great art - they daydream about having made great art."

That's funny, but, sadly, not true. The trouble with the art one's already 
made is that it's there for you to look at in all it's imperfection, and to 
wish you could have done better!
Shireen


***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireenh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~shireenh/
***********************************************


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From: Andrea Cuchetto (Dega)  <andreadega@ureach.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:24:29 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11981] Re: Devil's Advocate (sculpture resource) 

I would recommend you investigate the following links:
http://www.sculptshop.com/
and
http://www.sculptor.org/

best,
Andrea
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/a/andreadegastudios/


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From: barbara patera <b.patera@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 100 12:38:56 Pacific Daylight Time
Subject: [Baren 11982] Re: sculpture copies 

Dimitri,

Don't know if they still have them but The Art Institute of Chicago used to carry sculptures for drawing/study. 
This was years ago but perhaps  Julio R. would know for certain if you can still purchase them there.

Barbara P.

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 12:57:57 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11983] Devil's Advocate 

This is getting rather scary.
I have tried to send this posting twice and it does not seem to happen.
We have been having a night mare situation with Shaw ... losing e-mails.
I will try again.
Graham

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From: "Dr. Rectangle" <dr_rectangle@dr.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:24:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 11984] Windows, American Print Alliance 

>The show is called Windows, the gallery is Dana McCutcheon >Gallery, 2571
Shattuck Avenue...

HA ha ha haHA ha hAaaa... Hey, Sarah, it happened again: the strange
parallel art life.  Both you and I submitted to Dana McCutcheon's "Windows"
show, and again you were accepted while I got a very pretty rejection letter
in the mail!  :)  Congratulations!  Last time this happened, it was with the
Woman Made Gallery, but I love them so--I tried again and got into their
Holiday Bazaar this December.  I wonder what the "Windows" show ends up to
be like... I was disappointed that Dana didn't accept any of my works,
because I thought that surely their desired "broad interpretation" of
windows would recognize something refreshing about my art that utilizes the
odd medium of plastic envelope windows from junk-mail.... *Shrug*  Ah, well!
:)

And Maria, does The American Print Alliance fall into that list too?

Love <3 & Lint * !
Kat
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~katherip/art.html



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From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:25:38 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11985] missing messages 

Graham,
They are coming through, I have seen that message three times, so
something is giving you wrong information. This was a really good
discussion you generated. Lots of opinions. Just what we need, lots of
peope involved with their ideas.
Barbara

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:51:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11986] Re: missing messages 

>Graham,
>They are coming through, I have seen that message three times, so
>something is giving you wrong information. This was a really good
>discussion you generated. Lots of opinions. Just what we need, lots of
>peope involved with their ideas.
>Barbara

Thank you Barbara. I appreciate your feedback.
I guess it must be some sort of problem with Shaw Cable.
When we were putting together that Computer newsletter it just about 
drove us around the bend... actually it did .... had to drive to the 
neighbours to pick up and send stuff.  grrrr

Sincerely,

Graham

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From: "jerelee" <jerelee@main.nc.us>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:19:45 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11987] competition

As the new girl on the block, this forum has been extremely interesting. =
One point that seems to be paramount amoung you is the concept that =
competition is good. If art is purely subjective and there's a panel of =
ass-holes judging your work, than does the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place Miss =
America winner feel competent like a true survivor? As a novice,with =
other vices I don't see competition as really stoking the creative =
genius within. Do these shows really, really make you feel as if the the =
jackel has won his prize?

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:10:33 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11988] Re: "Standards" versus sincerity 

James has put it very nicely:
"So, while we agree that not every print in an exchange will be excellent,
that hardly demeans the exercise.  Why?  Because each and every print
reflects what [Baren] is all about.  And that, my friend, is why we do it."

The exhibitions are an offshoot from the exchanges...they were not planned
but rather improptu opportunities that came about to share our work with others
thru the
hard work of the members. It would be a different story if we put out a call for
prints for a juried
Baren exhibition.

Gayle's idea is a good one and I certainly welcome Graham with his experienced
background
and years of teaching experience to critique our exchange prints. As Dave said,
the mechanism is there
to give each individual artist either private or public criticism. What better
way to raise the
standard ?  Kind of a cyber-bootcamp............How about it ?

Of course it is very hard to really properly critique the works based on a low
resolution image on the web.
I am always shocked at the comparison when receiving my prints. The variety of
techniques, image sizes,
 special papers used, oil vs water, etc....can only be fairly  judged when held
in ones hands. But for that, I am
afraid you have to participate.

The exchanges and exhibitions have never been about "Look how good we are". They
have been about
"Who we are", "What we do"  and the fun we are having doing this stuff. For lot
of us who have no aspirations
to hang in the Louvre, is like being in school again....and for the many that
follow an art career is a nice break
 from their everyday agenda and a time to step back experiment and let
loose.....that is all it's meant to be and
 all that it should ever be.

Julio



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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 23:46:51 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11989] Re: missing messages and other stuff.... 

Graham, your repeated postings and "accidental" mailing of a private post to the
general list is quite transparent.
Please stop, you fool no one with your tactics.

 My work and efforts within the council's activities in no way prevents me or
any other council member from speaking
our mind on this list. There was no flaming on my post, just simply questioning
the standards to which you hold your own
 art. If you reread my last sentence, you will see that is actually quite
complementary to your person as I have always
viewed your work and teachings in high esteem.

But I feel that the general forum is not getting a true picture and since we
often use the term "family" here ....
At the risk of airing some dirty laundry....here is the real problem at
hand................

It's  become quite obvious to me, the council  and many other members on the
forum that since bootcamp ended not all is
 well between you and Dave. Posts by you and Marnie right afterwards confirm
this. While I respect your right to view your
opinions and express your differences between printmaking styles, creative
ability, sales technique,  preferences, etc, etc,
etc,etc, etc, etc....... your message has become somewhat repititive and
borderline arrogant.  With every new post you waste
 no opportunity to pick and redirect at Dave.

A few posts back, you took a praiseful post directed at Baren/Dave by Murillo,
took it apart using it once more to snap back
at Dave. This is not the first time someone unsubscribes from the list because
of your personal comebacks. Not everyone may
 have the fortitude that Maria, Dimitris, me and others have shown in responding
 to you this time....others simply ignore it hoping
 it will go away,  go back to lurking.....or worse.....leave the group feeling
terribly embarrassed.

You had been made aware of the council's point of view on this ongoing problem
on 10/29  via  a friendly and reconciliatory
private post and yet you chose to lash out once more and question the validity
and effort put forth by Arye and others wishing to
share our works with the public.  While your arguments are valid, have led to
some good discussion and you and others
 certaintainly have an open forum to speak your piece, I question your timing
and your intentions. In your own words "I think I
rattled the  bushes a bit and am pleased as that was the full intent  of the
posting".  Art IS a very personal thing, and asI did, I am
 sure others also took your comments as a most personal afront.

At the rate Maria (and other council members) is having to read and answer
private messages regarding your attitude and
demeanor on the forum, she will never reach her 1000th woodcut, much less her
500th.  Had this critical offensive been aimed
at someone other than Dave, I and others would have spoken out much sooner.  In
his own personal style he has dealt with it.
But now it's impacting other members. Perhaps you can take these issues you have
 , whatever they are!....offlist and come to
 some accord.

 Leave the forum for what it is intended....woodblock printmaking....not a
personal battleground.......I think you made your point
on the bootcamp matter a while back,  it is time to move on!!!!

If you care to continue this discussion offlist.....I promise my server will not
  lose any of  your posts........

Sincerely.......Julio



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End of Baren Digest V13 #1205
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