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Baren Digest              Sunday, 30 January 2000      Volume 10 : Number 882


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mary Krieger <mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:42:20 -0600
Subject: [Baren 8039] Re: Essential items for studio 

> patsy giclas wrote:
>
> >           I'm planning a studio for printmaking and painting, and would like to know what is the one thing that you feel is essential.

Good lighting.

Mary Krieger

PS My husband and I built a cheap alternative to a real flat file using 2 sheets of 3/4" ply and 3 1X3's. No closed drawers, just sliding shelves but it does keep the cat off the paper. : )


------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:10:40 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8040] Re: bad print framing 

There has been several postings with advise and guesses about the name of
the artist that has done this print.

Jack is/was a conservator and his posting is a sensible approach.

Dave recommended  "I think you should head over to the Japanese Prints
Bulletin Board at:" would be wise.  Bit better still.....

Take it to a public gallery and get there feed back.  We have a person,
Barry Till,  at the Victoria Art Gallery who is an expert on Japanese and
Asian prints.  If you come up with blanks down there then you could send it
to me I will talk to Barry.  I will enquire the cost for this service.  The
money goes to the Art Gallery....

Trying to diagnose the problem by looking at digitized images is risky.
Its like a Dr giving a advise over the phone.

By all appearances it looks as if it _could- be valuable.  I was talking to
a person a few days ago that found this print at a garage sale.   Turned
out to be valued at $30 grand.
Take care.


------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:17:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8041] I was mistaken. 

>Oops, sorry Graham - someone else must have said that. Do you all hear
>that? Graham does not cut paper!
>
>Boy, am I in for it now! From now on, someone else answers those
>questions about boot camp......
>
>Wanda

Opps to me..... I hope I did not embarras you..... It was not my intent.

Some one claimed that I did and did not do certain things.
It seemed to me they were passing judgement having never seen an actual
print and I wanted to explain my approach.

I realize in your case it was overload at last years Boot Camp and thought
I had expressed that as being the reason for your post.

What is it that Barbara said at last years workshop.......

"I thought I was wrong once ..... but I was mistaken"

I love that...

Graham

Hey we need a theme for this year.....


------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:36:39 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8042] Re: print # 

>With the Vadercook press I spend a long time setting up and geting the block
>to print the way I want it to, but after that can easily do 100 prints an
>hour.
>    I have a job at the moment in a commercial studio editioning etchings
>for other artists,  I print about 50 prints a day there.
>
>John

Hey please clearify something on this subject...

Everybody is expounding on the numbers of prints..
Are we talking finished print or are we talking one impression prints or
better defined as the number of pieces of paper you are able to run off in
a given hour/day.   Gees with some of the speeds and numbers you guys sound
like a sausage factory......

For me if I can do one colour on 30 pieces of paper in 2 or 3 hours,
depending on the complexity and bokashi, I figure I am going like
stink......

Graham


------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:00:22 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8043] Re: I was mistaken. <200001280628.PAA54618@ml.xx.or.jp> <200001291714.CAA13190@ml.xx.or.jp> 

No, Graham you didn't embarrass me. I just misunderstood or misheard
something about cutting the paper, that's all. And I'm glad you set the
record straight.

Yes, we need a theme for this year. We'll have to put our minds to it
now, while we still have a minute or two to think! :-) I think it will
be easier for me this year, as I won't be learning *everything* about
Hanga from the get-go. Last year I didn't know how to dampen the paper
or anything.

Thanks for the offer of having the print looked at, Graham. I will see
what the museum says. They have a huge collection of Japanese (and
other) prints, and several world-renowned restoration experts. Wowee, I
hope it's worth 30 grand! I could have that new studio built with some
extras, huh?

Wanda

------------------------------

From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:12:18 -1000
Subject: [Baren 8044] Re: bad print framing <200001280500.OAA06884@ml.xx.or.jp> <200001281808.DAA38252@ml.xx.or.jp> <200001291707.CAA49412@ml.xx.or.jp> 

Graham Scholes wrote:

> There has been several postings with advise and guesses about the name of
> the artist that has done this print.
>
> Jack is/was a conservator and his posting is a sensible approach.

I'm still "is", and thank you.

> By all appearances it looks as if it _could- be valuable.  I was talking to
> a person a few days ago that found this print at a garage sale.   Turned
> out to be valued at $30 grand.

Wanda did post it on ShogonGallery's bulletin board, and got a response almost
immediately. Since she hasn't posted the results, I will (if that's ok with
you Wanda, ok?). Here:


Wanda,
Your print is by Ide Gakusui, published by Watanabe Shosaburo, 1950. The
little red circle, if it is 6mm (as I suspect),
would date this as a first edition or at least an early edition. There was
another companion print of 2 cranes in the snow, with the same black
background produced around the same time. The embossing is lovely on both of
them, and they make a nice pair.   (posting by Marc Kahn)

Sorry, though. It's not worth quite $30 grand. ;>)

Jack


------------------------------

From: "Philip Smith" <smithart@pacifier.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:12:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8045] Wanda's Critique charset="iso-8859-1" 

Yes Wanda, you alone noticed my alter ego,...what can I say, I dug to deep!
Mucho thanks for the kind words!!!      Philip Hyde
- ----- >

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:07:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 8046] Re: bad print framing charset=ISO-8859-1 

Wanda,

I think I'd ask Marc Kahn what his references are.   After all, anyone ca=
n
respond to the Chat board and you have no idea what they really know.   I=
s
he literally translating the signature?   Does he have documentary proof
that the seal is that of Ide Gakusui, can he show you one from another
reference source of a print that is unquestionably by him?

I am no expert in identifying either Ohara Shoson's work or Ide Gakusui's=
,
but I again refer you to Hugo Munsterberg's book, "The Japanese Print-A
Historical Guide".   Page 161.   It certainly is enough to raise some
questions.    Is Hugo Munsterberg in error?   Did two artists draw nearly=

two identical compositions and get them published by the same publisher? =
 =

Neither one is impossible.   I'll scan the illustration from my book and
send it to you aside so you can take a look at it.   Interesting
identification problem.

Gary   =


------------------------------

From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:21:30 -1000
Subject: [Baren 8047] Re: bad print framing 

Gary Luedtke wrote:

> Wanda,
>
> I think I'd ask Marc Kahn what his references are.   After all, anyone can
> respond to the Chat board and you have no idea what they really know.   Is
> he literally translating the signature?   Does he have documentary proof
> that the seal is that of Ide Gakusui, can he show you one from another
> reference source of a print that is unquestionably by him?
>
> I am no expert in identifying either Ohara Shoson's work or Ide Gakusui's,
> but I again refer you to Hugo Munsterberg's book, "The Japanese Print-A
> Historical Guide".   Page 161.   It certainly is enough to raise some
> questions.    Is Hugo Munsterberg in error?   Did two artists draw nearly
> two identical compositions and get them published by the same publisher?
> Neither one is impossible.   I'll scan the illustration from my book and
> send it to you aside so you can take a look at it.   Interesting
> identification problem.

The signature on Wanda's print is definitely -not- Koson's (or Shoson, same
artist). Further, Koson's work is, on the whole, much more refined and
delicate, and with a subtle but more colorful palette that that on Wanda's
print (no offense meant, Koson is acknowledged as the best in the "bird and
flower" genre).
   Koson began working with Watanabe in 1926, and died in 1945. If Wanda's
print is indeed dated 1950, there is no problem with Watanabe using another
artist to produce designs to fill the bird and flower market left vacant by
Koson's death, and the fact that the design is similar to one of Koson's is
not out of character for Watanabe, who had on other occasions directed
artists to re-work another artist's popular and well selling designs.

Jack


------------------------------

From: "John Ryrie" <johnry@hotkey.net.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:22:48 +1100
Subject: [Baren 8048] Re: print # charset="iso-8859-1" 

>Graham wrote:
 Hey please clearify something on this subject...
>
> Everybody is expounding on the numbers of prints..
> Are we talking finished print or are we talking one impression prints or
> better defined as the number of pieces of paper you are able to run off in
> a given hour/day

Yes I'm talking about one B&W prints or one colour of a colour print.
Colour can  slow down the sausage factory like prodction, as it can take
days for each layer of oil basset inks to dry.

I was in contact with some one from Zoltan's workshop about the Watmans
paper.  The said it was only worth about $10 US
a sheet which would have been less
than shipping costs.
    I think they must be after the heavier wait paper.

    John
http://www.geosities.com/laddertree


------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:32:39 -0800
Subject: [Baren 8049] Re: bad print framing 

Well, after all, one heron/crane/bird will look much like another. 

John Ryrie sent a j-peg of an even earlier one by [Kyosai late 1870's.
After the painting by the 17th century master Kano Tanyu with a similar
copy made by J. Conder (an English pupil of Kyosai)]

Fascinating information. But I have several of Koson/Shoson's prints in
my book & as you say, they are much more delicate and detailed &
colorful (no offense taken at all) than my heron. I rather like the
restrained color and form of "my" heron.

Mr. Kahn has put me in touch with someone who has the other print (2
cranes in snow) so we'll see what develops!

Wanda

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:46:17 -0600
Subject: [Baren 8050] re: was mistaken....me too! 

Hi Graham...

In your reply to Wanda you write:

"Some one claimed that I did and did not do certain things.
It seemed to me they were passing judgement having never seen an actual
print and I wanted to explain my approach."

Since I asked the original question, you must be referring to me. I taken the
trouble to quote the
original message below....please note I don't say that you do or don't cut your
paper...
I am only referring to making the kento cut lines on the paper....and that your
prints don't seem to have
those real obvious cuts.  Since I do own two of your prints...I guess I have
really seen not one, but
actually two of your  "actual" prints.

However, it seems I was mistaken. Sorry about that!  After a second close
look....I did find your very
fine cut kento lines on several places along the top edge on "Rain Dance".

Thanks for the technique tip, I'll keep it in mind next time I have real rough
edged paper.

Julio

........................original message ....................
"I asked a couple of weeks back about the kento cuts on the printed paper that
some of the bootcamp graduates are
executing in their prints(#3) but I don't think anyone replied....

Now here they are again in exchange #4....I think it's too much coincidence that
only bootcampers John Amoss, Greg Robison  & Wanda Robertson are doing this so I
know it has to come from Graham's clinic. (but ....Graham's own prints
don't have such paper cuts...!)

Would anyone like to explain ?, why is the paper being cut ? Is it part of the
technique or is it an individual thingie....?


Curious & with the flu......Thanks...Julio"
............end of original message ...........


------------------------------

From: Studio Dalwood <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:47:26 +1100
Subject: [Baren 8051] Cutting Paper and print run sizes. 

Hi all

Graham said "I NEVEREVER cut my paper....always tear."

Well so do I Graham, I vote for the old school too. In fact I too can be
quite stroppy about it.

But for this exchange I had a problem, which I will share in the
interests of honest throat bareing.

 I had problems with the required shape of the paper, 
too elongated for me. They say in life drawing that
your drawings of the figure tend to be similar to your own body shape,
my theory being that your own body is the one you see the most and
therefore it subconsciously influences what you draw. Well in my case it
also seems to influence my plate sizes, sort of short and fat, ahem I
mean vertically challenged and curvaceous, gulp. I also like to leave a
lot of breathing space around
the print, big borders and matts are my preference.

After I cut the plate I double checked the paper size and ralised I had
misremembered it. So I ended up leaving myself with a 1.5 cm border down
the sides of the print, it's portrait format. The deckle edge on the
paper was too irregular for such a tiny border, and the paper thinned
too much toward the deckle for my liking. The paper size did not
allow me to simply fold and tear. The left over bits are now dragons,
thats how much out it was. So my solution was cut. I hated doing it. But
I had left myself no choice. Except to re-cut the plate and do another
trip into the city to try and find other paper. 

Its interesting but this whole project is turning out to be very
un-typical of my usual work. I usually press print on rag paper, but its
not just that, the style is untypical too. Oh well.

Andrea said
"How many proofs do the rest of you manage a day?"

Not as many as I would like. Listening to you all let me just say that I
am planning on about ten a session for #5, and that is a lot for me. I
did some 44 x 56cm plates last year which took over an hour to ink
intaglio style, each print. It depends on plate size, inking style,
whether or not a press is available and how bad my spine is on the day.

Josephine

------------------------------

From: Arafat Alnaim <ar_alnaim@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 8052] LETTER  ART  

Last week I put a suggestion for discussing an idea
for starting an exchange about LETTER ART. 
Exchange in which we explore the richness and beauty
of our languages and multicultural.
Relating to that I have found that this link could be
useful to give more celerity to the Idea.  
http://www.letterarts.com/lar/

Regards 
Arafat

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------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V10 #882
****************************